Man of Honour
- Joined
- 5 Oct 2008
- Posts
- 9,007
- Location
- Kent
This.
Time to increase taxes?
- Thread starter Casdawer
- Start date
This.
Permabanned
- Joined
- 23 Apr 2014
- Posts
- 23,552
- Location
- Hertfordshire
Efficiency isn't going to happen, governments have been trying and failing for years. Taxes need to be raised for everyone.
Plus we need to fill the black hole of Brexit so leave voters should put their money where their mouth is too, perhaps pay extra.
As above, lib dem proposal of 1% increase for all is fair.
Plus we need to fill the black hole of Brexit so leave voters should put their money where their mouth is too, perhaps pay extra.
As above, lib dem proposal of 1% increase for all is fair.
Soldato
- Joined
- 16 May 2007
- Posts
- 3,221
This is part of the problem, until you have to use any of the services or work with them you don't realise the state they are in. Many through luck, privilege etc. don't experience this and it colours their view.
Depends on how much, what increase would make a significant difference to actually improve services and offer a fair pay increase?
I'd rather see waste cut out, stop outsourcing and stop privatisation. There should be no room for profit in public services, they are for the good of the people not for increasing shareholders wealth especially when said shareholders funnel the money out of the country.
I'd rather see waste cut out, stop outsourcing and stop privatisation. There should be no room for profit in public services, they are for the good of the people not for increasing shareholders wealth especially when said shareholders funnel the money out of the country.
Associate
- Joined
- 4 Jan 2004
- Posts
- 1,407
- Location
- Finally, Swindon
I'm a lifelong Tory, and one of their core beliefs is lower taxes, and it's something I've seen implemented time and time again, and something I'm a fan of
As for the other side of the coin, expenditure, I'm a believer in the more benefits you give out, the more demand you create
However, I came to the conclusion about 8/9 years ago that the type of society the majority of people want, including myself, was going to become more and more expensive as the decades rolled by, and the old Tory take on tax matters would become unsustainable. I don't believe there will ever be significant tax cuts can be implemented in the rest of my lifetime in the way they were in the 80s/90s [for the Tories this creates a huge problem, because tax cutting was one of their banner policies]
As for increasing taxes, I think it's almost an inevitability, whoever's in charge...and that's just to keep things as they are. The populations is ageing, and just wait until the we are carrying 85% of GDP as debt and interest rates start to rise - the economy's going to gradually choke
I agree with many posters that there are further efficiencies to be gained from the Public Sector. The problem is much of the PS is that it's necessarily a people heavy endeavor, and if you want wages to go up generally, which seems to be the current clamour, it's going to be very expensive. Changes in the PS tend to evolutionary rather than revolutionary. As an example, when the crash happened all those years ago, the organisation I worked for cut 20% of it's workforce in 90 days. For my team, that meant losing 2 people. Within a year, my estimate was our output had increased by about 30%. I don't think those sort of efficiencies can ever be realised on an evolutionary pathway
Don't want to pay more taxes? Why not start by not buying stuff from ebay, Amazon, Starbucks etc. etc
As for the other side of the coin, expenditure, I'm a believer in the more benefits you give out, the more demand you create
However, I came to the conclusion about 8/9 years ago that the type of society the majority of people want, including myself, was going to become more and more expensive as the decades rolled by, and the old Tory take on tax matters would become unsustainable. I don't believe there will ever be significant tax cuts can be implemented in the rest of my lifetime in the way they were in the 80s/90s [for the Tories this creates a huge problem, because tax cutting was one of their banner policies]
As for increasing taxes, I think it's almost an inevitability, whoever's in charge...and that's just to keep things as they are. The populations is ageing, and just wait until the we are carrying 85% of GDP as debt and interest rates start to rise - the economy's going to gradually choke
I agree with many posters that there are further efficiencies to be gained from the Public Sector. The problem is much of the PS is that it's necessarily a people heavy endeavor, and if you want wages to go up generally, which seems to be the current clamour, it's going to be very expensive. Changes in the PS tend to evolutionary rather than revolutionary. As an example, when the crash happened all those years ago, the organisation I worked for cut 20% of it's workforce in 90 days. For my team, that meant losing 2 people. Within a year, my estimate was our output had increased by about 30%. I don't think those sort of efficiencies can ever be realised on an evolutionary pathway
Don't want to pay more taxes? Why not start by not buying stuff from ebay, Amazon, Starbucks etc. etc
Soldato
- Joined
- 16 May 2007
- Posts
- 3,221
For context, from the IFS:
Of the big three taxes:
- -- a 1 percentage point rise in all rates of income tax would raise £5.5 billion;
- -- a 1 percentage point rise in all employee and self-employed National Insurance contribution (NIC) rates would raise £4.9 billion; and
- -- a 1 percentage point rise in the main rate of VAT would raise £5.2 billion.
I think realistically, just adding 1 percent on one of these is not enough.
Of the big three taxes:
- -- a 1 percentage point rise in all rates of income tax would raise £5.5 billion;
- -- a 1 percentage point rise in all employee and self-employed National Insurance contribution (NIC) rates would raise £4.9 billion; and
- -- a 1 percentage point rise in the main rate of VAT would raise £5.2 billion.
I think realistically, just adding 1 percent on one of these is not enough.
This is a thread where we can play spot the
Tie together who voted to leave the EU and add on an extra £100 per month to their taxes. Job done.
Tie together who voted to leave the EU and add on an extra £100 per month to their taxes. Job done.
Permabanned
- Joined
- 23 Apr 2014
- Posts
- 23,552
- Location
- Hertfordshire
Sounds good.
When I talk about efficiencies I also mean spending things on like "art" and taxi fares, and all those other exuberant things local councils tend to like to spend their hard earned on.
Government/councils are just a scam.
I wish a company would just take over the country and oust the lot of them.
Government/councils are just a scam.
I wish a company would just take over the country and oust the lot of them.
But there are used more than double now and trains have been upgraded. The service may not be great, but in most parts of the country it is better.
Higher income tax can be a discouragement to productivity; instead we need to start looking at taxing wealth especially inherited wealth. There should be high taxes on inheritance as otherwise it thwarts upward social mobility.
Yes wealth taxes are unpopular and yes we all would like to make our children’s lives easier, but there needs to be a serious debate about this or inequality is going to rise dramatically.
Yes wealth taxes are unpopular and yes we all would like to make our children’s lives easier, but there needs to be a serious debate about this or inequality is going to rise dramatically.
Yawn. Which loopholes are they specifically? Why do you think they haven't already been closed?
This is going to divide a lot of people but I'd like to get a see if others agree with myself on this.
I'll be honest and say that I earn a decent wage and have a decent amount of spare cash at the end of the month so an increase in taxes wouldn't hit me particularity hard but I understand that for others, it would make it hard to make ends meet.
But, I honestly believe an increase in taxes is needed to prevent our NHS, Social Care, Education, Police, Firemen (pretty much all public sector work) from collapsing.
Budget cuts can only go so far and I understand that a lot of places like the NHS need to 'trim the fat' but I think we're at the stage now where we are starting to cut into the muscle and it's going to impact our services.
An increase in taxes would allow us to properly fund our schools and front line services and I think the value you get out of that is much better than that extra £10-20 you might lose from extra taxes.
An example is school breakfast / dinners. If we paid more taxes and more money went into education, we could ensure every child has a good healthy breakfast and lunch everyday which would take the burden off the parents and save the parents money, as I'm pretty sure schools can get meals far cheaper than parents can due to 'bulk buying'.
People are happy to throw 10's of millions at charity but aren't willing to pay a bit more tax every month. In an ideal world, we shouldn't need local charities because the Government would be properly funded to do everything it needs to do (Cancer research, homelessness, child safety etc.)
I could go on but I won't as I'd be here all day!
So, what's GDs opinion?
I dont agree with much of what you say, firstly you say we wont need charities because the gov would be properly funded.
How do you know where it be spent and if it would be spent wisely, did we really need to spend money on George Osborn house, did the big ben really require £29m and 4 years to be repaired ?
do MP's deserve the wages and bonuses they get (do we even need that many of them) ?
Most are rich to start with and have really made a mess of things.
If they want to cut cost best place to start at home and start with themselves.
The biggest issue in the UK is the Gov, we have a long list of issues they have caused
They just do stupid things, I sometimes think someone must be getting rich.
example Gov bailed out lloyds but sold all the shares in the end when it was making a profit.
Allowing Bank Heads bonus when they should been punished
NHS, Why did it take so long to see issue
Schools why is our education system rubbish, poorly managed. (i dont think its all funding)
I could go on forever but these few should get my point across.
I think the Gov needs a overhaul if we are to stand a chance in the future.
If you have so much left over why dont you donate it instead then at least you know where its spent.
in short this.
I'm sorry I bore you. So all the companies operating in the UK are now paying the tax they morally should be? Good to know.
Increasing taxes to help public services under a conservative government? Haha! Good one
Happy to pay more tax but only if further efficiencies are made and also more progress is made on reducing the deficit. One of the reasons we don't have enough money now is due to the payments for the massive deficit run up. We have to fix that and improve efficiency. Then I would be OK with higher taxes. Otherwise taxes will just be lost in those two black holes.
Soldato
- Joined
- 9 Nov 2005
- Posts
- 9,494
- Location
- Southampton, hopefully not too hot, or too cold
Tax the people who needlessly use motor vehicles for short journeys, instead of cycling.
If people used bicycles for journeys shorter than ~5 miles, the UK population would be far more healthy and their life expectancy would increase, IIRC official government figures now show that current 40+ year old are not expected to live as long as the previous generation. As a nation, we are heading for "Couch Potato Central."
Encourage people to get healthier; spend less money on travel; reduce traffic congestion for vehicles that really need to use the roads; reduce the burden on the NHS etc.
If people used bicycles for journeys shorter than ~5 miles, the UK population would be far more healthy and their life expectancy would increase, IIRC official government figures now show that current 40+ year old are not expected to live as long as the previous generation. As a nation, we are heading for "Couch Potato Central."
Encourage people to get healthier; spend less money on travel; reduce traffic congestion for vehicles that really need to use the roads; reduce the burden on the NHS etc.