May be true for Sainsbury's and Tescos online but we never have that issue with Ocado.
Has Waitrose gone 'downmarket'?
- Thread starter inferno
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I like ocado the sheer amount of specialist products available, tesco comes second. Nothing comes close to their website either from a functionality point of view, being able to sort by price per should be stadard and just easier to find deals, new items etc.
Lidl is only ok for veg/fruit/meat but isn't as cheap as everyone makes out, other supermarkets are cheaper on many things. But my biggest issue is you can not only shop at lidl, the things like mayo and other sauces are just darn right disgusting.
as for meat if you want quality find a butcher either local or online that has decent meat, the taste difference is incredible Especially with pork and chicken.
But as to the man question, no idea. wiatrose isn't close and well use delivery instead.
Lidl is only ok for veg/fruit/meat but isn't as cheap as everyone makes out, other supermarkets are cheaper on many things. But my biggest issue is you can not only shop at lidl, the things like mayo and other sauces are just darn right disgusting.
as for meat if you want quality find a butcher either local or online that has decent meat, the taste difference is incredible Especially with pork and chicken.
But as to the man question, no idea. wiatrose isn't close and well use delivery instead.
The new Sainsbury store in Nine Elms, London, had a large Sushi counter with Sushi chefs while the Waitrose store in Greenwich hasn't.
Mostly true, though I tend to find Morrison the only supermarket to have highly trained staff on their fish and meat counters. Fortunately for me Jay Rayner's favourite fishmonger is just a five minute away from my home and a number of excellent butchers within walking distance where one of them used to be a manager at the Ginger Pig.
Sometimes the queue at one of the butchers is just too long.
There's a fabulous farm shop, one of London's best according to the Evening Standard, across the road from the butcher pictured above. Also a great independent baker down the road, where the camera is pointing, was named in the country's top twenty list of bakers by the Daily Telegraph.
I honestly can't see what's the big deal in shopping in Waitrose any more when you are surrounded by great independent retailers. It doesn't do it for me on quality or prices. It's full of pretentious people who aren't good at shopping and some how expect kudos for shopping there when all they did was to jump on the middle class band wagon. Where's the skill in that? No wonder Waitrose is in decline.
Yep - steaks etc.
That said their ham is good as well, alongside their fresh burgers (although sainsburies burgers are just as good/better).
Point is you're going to get more consistence in meat quality going from one Wairose to another than one butchers shop to another.
Things that really separate a "good" supermarket from an average/poor supermarket for me are fresh meats (quality of steaks, chops etc), processed meats (flour based products they put in their burgers and sausages mostly - cheaper the supermarket the more crap they put in them/less selection of burgers/sausages without crap in them) and cheese (wide selection of cheeses from around the world rather than just Cheddar, Edam and Brie).
For those things Waitrose is top, Sainsburies next then Asda and Morrisons right at the bottom.
Used to work right next to a great butchers on Marylebone high street. Essentially a farm shop with lots of rare breeds. The issue is, like many farm shops, the product pricing is significantly more than at a supermarket and unless you're going for a specific cut or breed the quality is going to be just the same as at a decent supermarket.
It also had a fromagerie next door which also had some great cheese, but was significantly more expensive than the supermarket. Great if you're looking for a specific hard to find cheese, but not if you're just looking for a decent quality fairly well known one.
The other issue is how many people have a few hours to go shopping and pop into X Butcher to grab their meat, then drive/walk to Y bakery before heading to the next specialist store for their speciality. Supermarkets save significant amounts of time, which is normally pretty precious unless you're retired or don't work. Hence why so many good butchers and other specialist places are so busy at Christmas. People are willing to spend more time and money for that special occasion than any other day.
Actually, the butcher shown in the above picture has free range chicken that's cheaper and tastier than the large Sainsbury superstore up the road. In fact, I was talking to someone from the Ginger Pig who confirmed that the supermarket meat price is ridiculous for what it is.
Marylebone High street is an expensive place to shop so the prices shown on the food is more reflective of property values than an indicator of quality/vfm. As for cheese, I've tried the Aldi/Lidl aged parmesan cheese and found little difference amongst the independent cheese shops.
The big four supermarkets are suffering because people are actually seeking value by shopping around. Justin King, when he held the CEO position for Sainsbury, gone are the days where people used to do their shopping in one single supermarket. The nature of the retail grocery market has changed completely since the banking crisis.
The ginger pig (the place I was talking about in the previous post, presumably you worked that out) was just an example. I've found the same outside London (and internationally). The reality is your average butcher is going to be getting their meat form a local abattoir, probably the same one the regional supermarkets are getting their's from. They don't have the overheads, but they also don't have the buying power or scale.
While I don't disagree that the meat from the GP is likely to be different than a supermarket (most of the pork at least is from their own farms, with different breeds) taking it as gospel from someone that works somewhere that "their product is better" is a little naive.
As I said IME most stuff in independent butchers and farmers markets/shops are more expensive for "like for like". Some stuff can be cheaper on occasion, but IME most of the time it's more. Sometimes significantly more (like 2-3x IME). Outside of eating a different cut or different breed the flavour is usually the same relative a good supermarket. Sometimes the butchers/farm market is worse, again IME.
Like many things you need to search around and find that place that is best for you. Not every supermarket is going to be great, not every independent is going to be great (they're likely to have more variability than a supermarket chain), and not every cut/product from any of them is going to always be cheaper/better.
Exactly. Same with meat IMO. If you're going for a standard product then a decent supermarket is going to provide basically the same product. I'd class Lidl/Aldi as a decent supermarket when discussing stuff like Parmesan as it falls under "European products".
Waitrose was fairly immune to this, although it appears it's finally started succumbing (today's press release) because it targeted a different market segment to the rest. What you're not going to find though is people now going to independents and paying more for their products. They're heading to Lidl and Aldi.
I think it's a cultural thing too. My other half is French, and she -only- buys from butchers or from fish shops. Same with cheese, she eats a lot of cheese and it's all from the cheesemonger. The area where we live is infested with French people, and hence there are heaps and heaps of independent cheese/wine/meat/fish shops. We can get good produce cheaper because of this I think.
Not just your average butcher, otherwise they would have to set up their own abattoir and costs/regulation make this a hefty expense. Our local butcher will buy stock off farm, they will go to the abbattoir for culling, then he will collect and cut it up/process it to sell, with a sign on his blackboard saying which farm this weeks meat came from.
Supermarkets are their to make a profit, they do this with smoke and mirrors. Waitrose demand red tractor standard from their farmers (as many others do). The red tractor scheme claims to be able to trace where that meat came from, I challenge any of you who purchase meat with the red tractor logo to contact the supermarket/red tractor and find which farm it came from.
Sorry for going slighty off topic, i just wanted to shed a little light on supermarket activities, the regulation farmers have to adhere to which doesnt seem to apply once the supermarkets are involved.
I love Waitrose and the main reason is shorter queues and less rammed. Definitely worth the mark up on their own branded stuff for an easier shopping experience. Further down is a Morrisons, sure the meat and fish counters are good but be prepared to spend as much time queuing as you do shop. And a wee bit further down the road is an Iceland. Tried it once, never again. Absolutely dreadful, two tills open only and fat slob chavvy nobs arguing about most items on the belt.
Central London fun.
Central London fun.
Abattoir yes, as government essentially banned small abattoirs. Same animals then no that wouldn't be normal. Even an average butcher should be able to tale you witch farm, breeds and welfare.
The ginger pig (the place I was talking about in the previous post, presumably you worked that out) was just an example. I've found the same outside London (and internationally). The reality is your average butcher is going to be getting their meat form a local abattoir, probably the same one the regional supermarkets are getting their's from. They don't have the overheads, but they also don't have the buying power or scale.
While I don't disagree that the meat from the GP is likely to be different than a supermarket (most of the pork at least is from their own farms, with different breeds) taking it as gospel from someone that works somewhere that "their product is better" is a little naive.
Actually, I'm not naive at all, you just misinterpreted what I wrote to fit your own personal beliefs. What I said is supermarket meat prices are ridiculous for what it is. My local butchers know their farms where they source their meat so any talk about abattoirs is really just a distraction.
Of course supermarkets have buying power and lower overheads but these are not reflected if you look at the prices of meat from Tesco and Sainsburys. They are more concern in delivering a return to their shareholders hence their rather excessive profits. However, I do buy meat from Aldi, Lidl and Morrisons as well and will continue to do so. Where I choose to buy is dependent on what recipes and cuts.
I've always shopped around for many years so what you're saying to me isn't new to me.
You probably find most of the grocery retailers struggling in the past four years apart from Aldi and Lidl. Also there was a great BBC documentary on the history of grocery shopping, which appeared on tv a few years ago, suggested more people are buying their meat, fish, veg, fruit and bakeries from the independents. Mostly because they wanted a greater connection with their food due to a lack of trust in the food chain. I see that you're now located in Canada. How long have you've been out of the UK?
And what's your justification for saying supermarket meat prices are ridiculous for what they are? The only example you've given so far is the butcher from the Ginger Pig telling you so.
As I said there are some butchers that specialize in rare breeds, have their own supply chains and really go out of the way to provide a quality product. You are paying for that privilege. Other butchers don't.
That's IME. You can get some good meats from specific butchers - different cuts, different breeds, but usually it's a fair chunk more than the supermarket. If you're buying a standard cut and breed then all you're really doing is paying extra for the same thing, just like the cheese example you gave.
And yes, supermarkets are there to make a profit. Unlike the local butcher that's doing things for the good of the community, not to make a living?
The romantic view of the local independent vs the evil supermarkets is alive and well in this thread...
And I've been gone foronly a year or so, not enough time for any major changes
. What i can say because of that though is that the experience is not unique to the UK. Over here it's practically the same. Some supermarkets are better than others for certain products. The Safeway here does really nice meat, but is more expensive than the local Superstore. The local farmers market is so so however, more expensive for a product that is basically the same as the supermarket (and sometimes worse), coincidentally just the same experience I've had in the UK.
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I was comparing the prices and quality from Sainsburys, Tesco and Waitrose. And judging from your last quote it seems you're struggling with what I originally said. So I'm going to end the discussion on this point rather than continuing correcting you.
Basically, I feel most of supermarket meat tend to be bland compared to the butchers. Also pricing from the butchers are generally cheaper in my experience. So no, I don't agree with you.
And yes, supermarkets are there to make a profit. Unlike the local butcher that's doing things for the good of the community, not to make a living?
The romantic view of the local independent vs the evil supermarkets is alive and well in this thread...
Of course Supermarkets is out there to make a profit but the point I was making is that their buying power is fuelling their profits rather than giving the consumer a cheaper product.
The romantic view of local independents vs the evil supermarkets is your unhelpful view of the situation. I suggest throw in local economics and the fact that big businesses have loads of idiots working for them then suddenly there is no such thing as a romantic view.
erm what?
In the context of supermarkets (so lets not be silly and start counting department stores like Fortnum and Mason, Selfridges, Harrods etc..) what stores count as upmarket if not Waitrose? You've got perhaps M&S and Whole Foods - all the others (Tesco, Sainsbury's, Morrisons, Asda, Lidl, Aldi etc..) are downmarket relative to Waitrose.