Gove considering plastic bottle deposit scheme

[Glaucus]

So although on paper this proposal from Gove sounds good it really is a drop in the ocean, excuse the pun, and will not address the real issues.

this is wrong on several levels.
for a start, you cant solve everything straight away.

secondly when plastic breaks down it just gets smaller, so all plastic will end up in the water and be to small for normal filters.

 

[Glaucus]

That's assuming the super markets have the van capacity to take dirty bottles back to the store that will need to be segregated from all fresh produce, there will be an extra cost to them either way for processing the bottles which they will pass on to us and will we see a reduction in the cost of council tax as they are no longer taking these plastic bottles? I doubt it!

It is an old fashion solution from and old fashioned government.

so they have the capacity to now only bring you bottles and everything else, but down have room to take it back. ROFL

 

[lude1962]

It is more headline grabbing deflection from the real issues by the Tories master of such things. Before long he will re-open the mines and the mills 'because they were great for poor people when I were a lad'

The glory days of when you were a lad, 3 day week, everyone on strike.

But back to the topic in hand, there needs to be a standardized refuse collection scheme, at present some councils may have 4 bins, others 2, some take glass some don't.
If there is going to be a tariff on plastic bottles the money should go towards more research into biodegradeables, or waste recycling methods (disposable coffee cups anyone).

 

[Kronos]

this is wrong on several levels.
for a start, you cant solve everything straight away.

secondly when plastic breaks down it just gets smaller, so all plastic will end up in the water and be to small for normal filters.

Wrong on several levels but you only mention one, of course plastic breaks down but a plastic bottle can take between 450 and a 1000 years to do. The amount of microbeeds being dumped into the oceans far outstrips plastic bottles which is why use of microbeads should be stopped entirely now as they are are entering the food chain in alarming quantities.

 

[krooton]

Geez, we were doing this back in the 90s in South Africa, my dad's cola addiction really helped boost my pocket money

 

[a1ex2001]

so they have the capacity to now only bring you bottles and everything else, but down have room to take it back. ROFL

The used bottles will have to be segregated, there is no way on earth that health and safety will allow them to be transported in the same space, so that is a redesign of the van or the use of even more plastics to segregate them and then the can man will have to process them when he collects them to know who has sent back what, these will then need to be processed at the store all of which is extra time and cost for the super market which we the consumer will pay for while all the time paying the same council tax even though bottles and cans are no longer being collected. It is an old fashioned solution to the problem which puts all the onus\costs on the consumer and none on either the supplier or the retailer packaging is a huge problem and the real solution needs a combination of measures but Gove and his rich friends won't risk annoying/inconveniencing big business as unlike us they are not 'all in it together' Heaven forgbid Tesco or Asda should take a profit hit to sort out the problem.

 

[ubersonic]

Gove with a retarded idea? Whatever next >.>

So they are now essentially going to be fining people for recycling (and after they forced people to recycle by threatening to fine them for putting the wrong thing in the wrong colour bin) unless they pay to drive or get the bus to a supermarket and recycle them there.

Let me guess, that "deposit" gets added to the cost before VAT doesn't it >.>

 

[ubersonic]

I'm also suggesting that a bottle deposit scheme will have little or no effect

It's likely to have a quite big effect really, purely because the extra tax will raise the "pence per litre" cost of bottles above that of cans so sales of bottles will drop.

I.E if you raise the price of a 2L bottle of Pepsi Max by 10p that's 5p per litre, those bottles are not 5p per litre cheaper than 24 can multipacks.

 

[a1ex2001]

It's likely to have a quite big effect really, purely because the extra tax will raise the "pence per litre" cost of bottles above that of cans so sales of bottles will drop.

I.E if you raise the price of a 2L bottle of Pepsi Max by 10p that's 5p per litre, those bottles are not 5p per litre cheaper than 24 can multipacks.

Hadn't thought about it like that, I much prefer can's so thats one less plastic bottle we would have in our occasional recycling. It's milk bottles that would really annoy me we go through gallons of the stuff and I like just ditching them outside for the recycle pick up.

 

[Glaucus]

The used bottles will have to be segregated, there is no way on earth that health and safety will allow them to be transported in the same space.

this is not an issue at all. the van empties out, it is extremely easy to segregate them.
oh now, the whole extra 2 mins when he gets back to the depot to chuck them in a massive bin.

you are putting obstacles in the way that just don't exist.

Wrong on several levels but you only mention one, of course plastic breaks down but a plastic bottle can take between 450 and a 1000 years to do. The amount of microbeeds being dumped into the oceans far outstrips plastic bottles which is why use of microbeads should be stopped entirely now as they are are entering the food chain in alarming quantities.

actually, i mentioned two, you just ignored it. Again you do not have to tackle everything at the same time nor is it practical. is it an issue yes, but so are 1001 other things, progress takes time.

 

[MookJong]

This will not pass parliament surely. It is such a convoluted path to the goal it's trying to achieve.

 

[Flibster]

So instead of just dumping them in the recycling bin outside the house I'd have to load them into the car and drive them to a supermarket.
With my car that's half a gallon of fuel. Well that seems sensible.

 

[wildman]

I'll just carry on burning them all in the back yard.....................

 

[Efour]

Hadn't thought about it like that, I much prefer can's so thats one less plastic bottle we would have in our occasional recycling. It's milk bottles that would really annoy me we go through gallons of the stuff and I like just ditching them outside for the recycle pick up.

Glass milk bottles? Plastic 2L bottles? Cartons? If it's not part of the recycling scheme, it works on barcodes btw, you recycle it just how u do now.

 

[Amp34]

Where I live we already had recycle bags for plastic and metal tins collected every week. So i'd lose out while still recycling.

If you already recycle “losing out” basically means spending an extra couple of minutes every week or so getting your deposits back.

It would be anmajor change for those that don’t currently recycle, as it would hit their pocket.

 

[Amp34]

Surely the biggest plastic environmental hazard are the microbeads which are in face soaps, body washes, and even toothpastes. They are sometimes included in “age-defying” makeup (yes, filling in wrinkles with plastic dust!), as well as lip gloss and nail polish. Most wastewater treatment doesn’t filter out microbeads, and they get discharged into waterways. As a result, micro-plastic particles are found in bays, gulfs and seas worldwide, as well as inland waterways.
So although on paper this proposal from Gove sounds good it really is a drop in the ocean, excuse the pun, and will not address the real issues.

Agreed, which is why the government are proposing to ban them too.

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.independent.co.uk/environment/microbeads-ban-bill-uk-cosmetic-products-government-outlaws-microplastics-a7852346.html?amp

The Government is to go ahead with a ban on “rinse-off” plastic microbeads in cosmetics and personal care products following a public consultation, it has announced.

The proposal comes amid increasing evidence that tiny plastic particles are damaging marine life and could even pose a serious risk to human health.

Exfoliating scrubs, shower gels and toothpaste are among the products to be affected.

And as for the home delivery options, it’s as if people think the UK is the only country that does it?

 

[Amp34]

The used bottles will have to be segregated, there is no way on earth that health and safety will allow them to be transported in the same space, so that is a redesign of the van or the use of even more plastics to segregate them and then the can man will have to process them when he collects them to know who has sent back what, these will then need to be processed at the store all of which is extra time and cost for the super market which we the consumer will pay for while all the time paying the same council tax even though bottles and cans are no longer being collected. It is an old fashioned solution to the problem which puts all the onus\costs on the consumer and none on either the supplier or the retailer packaging is a huge problem and the real solution needs a combination of measures but Gove and his rich friends won't risk annoying/inconveniencing big business as unlike us they are not 'all in it together' Heaven forgbid Tesco or Asda should take a profit hit to sort out the problem.

Currently the UK recycles around 57% of it’s plastic bottles. Other countries that use the deposit schemes are in the high 80s and 90%s so I ask you: what’s your solution to get recycling up to 90% if it doesn’t include a deposit scheme?

Gove with a retarded idea? Whatever next >.>

So they are now essentially going to be fining people for recycling (and after they forced people to recycle by threatening to fine them for putting the wrong thing in the wrong colour bin) unless they pay to drive or get the bus to a supermarket and recycle them there.

Let me guess, that "deposit" gets added to the cost before VAT doesn't it >.>

For the scheme here it’s added to the bill as a separate charge. Eg

Coca Cola 12 pack - $10
    Deposit - 12x$0.10 - $1.20

It's likely to have a quite big effect really, purely because the extra tax will raise the "pence per litre" cost of bottles above that of cans so sales of bottles will drop.

I.E if you raise the price of a 2L bottle of Pepsi Max by 10p that's 5p per litre, those bottles are not 5p per litre cheaper than 24 can multipacks.

Some schemes are designed to push companies away from certain packaging on purpose. However not in the way you’re describing. The pence per litre is likely to be no different, both because the price on the shelf is unlikely to include the deposit amount in the main price AND because you get that money back. It’s a deposit, not a tax.

If you’re really that close to being broke that you can’t afford to pay a little extra deposit (that you get back) the you probably won’t be buying a dozen cans over a 2 litre bottle now anyway.

 

[a1ex2001]

Currently the UK recycles around 57% of it’s plastic bottles. Other countries that use the deposit schemes are in the high 80s and 90%s so I ask you: what’s your solution to get recycling up to 90% if it doesn’t include a deposit scheme?
.

It's silly just to look at numbers like that, the countries you talk about have much higher recycling rates of everything regardless of deposit schemes it is a cultural thing.

My issue with this is Gove proposing another step back to his child hood without thinking it through in the online shopping age. What's needed here is a whole package of measures not a headline grabber. Standardised doorstep recycling across the country would be a start not the lottery we currently have and forcing the manufacturers and retailers to take some responsibility for the over packaged goods they produce. A deposit scheme is not a one stop fix all, it punishes anyone who already recycles and shops online and will be a nice profit boost for veola et al who will be collecting less recycling from the doorstep and still charging councils the same!

 

[Kronos]

Agreed, which is why the government are proposing to ban them too

I think the word to note is 'proposing' the evidence is plentiful that this is a major issue but we are only at the proposal stage. Like the proposed ivory ban Goves proposal it is little more than a cynical attempt to attract the young vote which were were not happy when the 2017 manifesto quietly dropped the ivory ban recommendation from the Tory manifesto.

 

[UTmaniac]

Something that stuck me while out earlier... Why are so few if any UK public bins not split into a general waste and recycling section?