Does anyone still think the housing market isn't broken?

LabR@t · 14 Oct 2017 at 15:39

billysielu said:
@MissChief
And just so you can see why tax annoys me so much... I pay more than your salary in income tax.
So you get all the UK education/health/pension/roads/etc for under £4k
I get the exact same services, for over £22k.
Good deal.. for you.

You pay 22k in tax? Then you are probably in a position not to miss it then. Change jobs, go work for a charity.. think what a good deal you will be getting

CREATIVE!11 · 14 Oct 2017 at 15:44

billysielu said:
@MissChief
And just so you can see why tax annoys me so much... I pay more than your salary in income tax.
So you get all the UK education/health/pension/roads/etc for under £4k
I get the exact same services, for over £22k.
Good deal.. for you.

Lol

Randomface74 · 14 Oct 2017 at 15:45

LabR@t said:
You pay 22k in tax? Then you are probably in a position not to miss it then.

Really common response, but very annoying from my perspective!
I'll repeat my earlier points...
- To get a house on your own in the south east this is the sort of income you need, I wouldn't be able to get a mortgage on my house at today's prices.
- "The more you earn the more you pay" is satisfied by a PERCENTAGE, the 40% tax bracket is a really harsh punishment for having a good job.

Ayahuasca · 14 Oct 2017 at 15:46

However hard you may have worked for it billy I don't think you can really complain about others getting the same services for less, I'm pretty sure your standard of living is way above most on 22k!

Em3bbs · 14 Oct 2017 at 15:47

LabR@t said:
Society and families were more secure before it took 2 wages to buy a house.

I know my children are happier not having to have mum at work.

Weird, I'm a 70s child and my dad had three jobs (postman in the morning, mechanic then barman) to get us an average semi 3 bed semi detached house. My mum then went back to work so he'd only need to do one job. This was a house just inside the M25 (Surrey). I'm not sure where you are but I think people work far less hard now but expect much more. I work from home two days a week so I can do the school run and spend time with my children, that would have been unimaginable for a father 30 years ago but it's pretty normal now.

Woden · 14 Oct 2017 at 15:49

billysielu said:
Really common response, but very annoying from my perspective!
I'll repeat my earlier points...
- To get a house on your own in the south east this is the sort of income you need, I wouldn't be able to get a mortgage on my house at today's prices.
- "The more you earn the more you pay" is satisfied by a PERCENTAGE, the 40% tax bracket is a really harsh punishment for having a good job.

I'd be with you on that if things got more expensive as you earn more. The essentials cost the same.

Randomface74 · 14 Oct 2017 at 15:55

Woden said:
I'd be with you on that if things got more expensive as you earn more. The essentials cost the same.

The essentials, like education, health care, roads, pension - DO get more expensive as you earn more, and disproportionately so because of the higher rate of income tax.

I know people like to play attack-the-rich-person but can we rise above it and stay on topic please.

I just mention income tax because it's relevant to income, which is relevant to being able to buy houses. Can't really have a complete discussion about the housing market without considering it.

LabR@t · 14 Oct 2017 at 15:58

Electric is still the same price, as is a loaf of bread

Randomface74 · 14 Oct 2017 at 15:59

pfft bread, peasant food.

V F · 14 Oct 2017 at 16:14

billysielu said:
pfft bread, peasant food.

Heh, what about those during the war?

Randomface74 · 14 Oct 2017 at 16:20

V F said:
Heh, what about those during the war?

Actually that's really interesting. I was reading about wartime food just yesterday.
Here's a good website about it: http://www.cooksinfo.com/british-wartime-food
It's handy as a reminder of how much food a person really needs to survive.
Kinda relates back to early comments about millennials and consumerism - it's in corporations' interests to move the bar on what 'need' means.
This example of how a person can use their resources more efficiently can no doubt be applied in other areas of their lives.

Even though I jest about bread - I did grow up in a poor single-parent family in Hull. I know the value of money and use it wisely. I don't believe in buying fancy stuff just because you can. Probably why I'm so sensitive about other people thinking they have a right to take my money and spend it however they want.

LabR@t · 14 Oct 2017 at 16:26

billysielu said:
Actually that's really interesting. I was reading about wartime food just yesterday.
Here's a good website about it: http://www.cooksinfo.com/british-wartime-food
It's handy as a reminder of how much food a person really needs to survive.
Kinda relates back to early comments about millennials and consumerism - it's in corporations' interests to move the bar on what 'need' means.
This example of how a person can use their resources more efficiently can no doubt be applied in other areas of their lives.

Even though I jest about bread - I did grow up in a poor single-parent family in Hull. I know the value of money and use it wisely. I don't believe in buying fancy stuff just because you can. Probably why I'm so sensitive about other people thinking they have a right to take my money and spend it however they want.

Think how healthy we would all be now if we lived by rations, not such a bad idea it would stop people eating excessiviely and would be easy to set up with modern tech.

Woden · 14 Oct 2017 at 16:26

billysielu said:
The essentials, like education, health care, roads, pension - DO get more expensive as you earn more, and disproportionately so because of the higher rate of income tax.

I know people like to play attack-the-rich-person but can we rise above it and stay on topic please.

I just mention income tax because it's relevant to income, which is relevant to being able to buy houses. Can't really have a complete discussion about the housing market without considering it.

I'm not attacking you, I'm not on higher rate but I am more than comfortable myself. But the higher tax rate is there because low income workers just can't afford it. Your tax is higher, but food, gas, electric etc etc aren't unless you choose them to be.

in other news...

While the gap between the richest and poorest continues to grow the number of able to get a mortgage will just keep falling. We are going to hit a crises where millions can't pay the rent because they cant keep working and pension just doesn't cover it.

Woden · 14 Oct 2017 at 16:27

LabR@t said:
Think how healthy we would all be now if we lived by rations, not such a bad idea it would stop people eating excessiviely and would be easy to set up with modern tech.

You can pry my kebab from my cold, greasy fingers!

Randomface74 · 14 Oct 2017 at 16:29

Haha. I think there's going to be a trend like 'cord cutting' we've already seen with TV - where people 'cord cut' their fridges.
No fridges = no weekly shop
Would go a long way IMO.

Vonhelmet · 14 Oct 2017 at 16:44

LabR@t said:
Of course not. This is why with help people in this country to make ends meet, or don't you agree with helping people out?

It seems awfully inefficient for the government to crash the economy and then bail out the people that leaves in trouble.

Besides, the government's latest brilliant idea for helping people out - universal credit - isn't exactly off to a great start. You may also have noticed the odd few stories about benefit sanctions etc on struggling people. I'd hardly say the government is super competent when it comes to helping people out.

Vonhelmet · 14 Oct 2017 at 16:45

LabR@t said:
Think how healthy we would all be now if we lived by rations, not such a bad idea it would stop people eating excessiviely and would be easy to set up with modern tech.

What sort of godawful regressive society are you hoping for?

Vonhelmet · 14 Oct 2017 at 16:49

billysielu said:
Really common response, but very annoying from my perspective!
I'll repeat my earlier points...
- To get a house on your own in the south east this is the sort of income you need, I wouldn't be able to get a mortgage on my house at today's prices.
- "The more you earn the more you pay" is satisfied by a PERCENTAGE, the 40% tax bracket is a really harsh punishment for having a good job.

Get over it. You're only taxed at 40% on your earnings above 45k, you'll manage.

If you're paying £22k in tax (and NI?) you must be earning about £70k, right?

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs clearly doesn't grab you.

Randomface74 · 14 Oct 2017 at 16:51

Vonhelmet said:
It seems awfully inefficient for the government to crash the economy and then bail out the people that leaves in trouble.

The bailouts are never to people. They are transfers of huge sums from government (read: you and me) to private corporations. Packaged up as a 'necessary rescue'.
This rabbit hole goes as far as you can be bothered to follow it for.

Randomface74 · 14 Oct 2017 at 16:54

Vonhelmet said:
Get over it. You're only taxed at 40% on your earnings above 45k, you'll manage.

Of course, but don't you think that's odd? You're told to work hard, get educated, get the best job you can, then punished for it, and told you can't complain?

I could start a business on the side, or do a second job in the evening. But it just doesn't seem worth it when only about half what I earn would go to me. Surely it would be better for the economy if people worked as much as they could.