where does all the electricity go

touch · 30 Oct 2017 at 13:47

413x said:
The oil etc still has to be transported for electricity in our society to the power station most of the time. Just as it does to Central gas hubs

Yes, you're right.

I wasn't trying to say that electric heating is more efficient, just making the point that there are losses in the supply chain of each fuel and it's probably impossible to compare them other when taking the full chain into account.

413x · 30 Oct 2017 at 13:58

touch said:
Yes, you're right.

I wasn't trying to say that electric heating is more efficient, just making the point that there are losses in the supply chain of each fuel and it's probably impossible to compare them other when taking the full chain into account.

Absolutely. It's a complicated and in many places wasteful system.

englishpremier · 30 Oct 2017 at 14:18

The OP specifically mentioned devices that are earthed. Earth or ground usually carries 0v, so there is no energy running through it at all. Energy only travels along it in the case of a short.

dcsarge · 30 Oct 2017 at 15:05

rubberduck said:
What about if the lightbulb was on a treadmill?

It would get broken by the 747 that is attempting to takeoff. That is a health and safety nightmare nobody wants to deal with.

Six6siX · 30 Oct 2017 at 16:32

dcsarge said:
It would get broken by the 747 that is attempting to takeoff. That is a health and safety nightmare nobody wants to deal with.

I think the 747 would sufficiently heat the room though.

Conclusion: lightbulbs on treadmills are the energy source of the future as long as you can fuel the 747.

4K8KW10 · 30 Oct 2017 at 16:51

We have to use LED light bulbs.

However, I'm more inclined to support the idea NOT to use power supplies for PCs with Titanium, Platinum and Gold ratings. Their "wasted" energy is never actually wasted. We are directly adding some heat to our rooms.

Six6siX · 30 Oct 2017 at 17:25

4K8KW10 said:
We have to use LED light bulbs.

However, I'm more inclined to support the idea NOT to use power supplies for PCs with Titanium, Platinum and Gold ratings. Their "wasted" energy is never actually wasted. We are directly adding some heat to our rooms.

I agree. That 'wasted' heat is especially useful in summer.

dcsarge · 30 Oct 2017 at 17:30

Six6siX said:
I think the 747 would sufficiently heat the room though.

Conclusion: lightbulbs on treadmills are the energy source of the future as long as you can fuel the 747.

I got the impression from this thread that climate change was a non issue so, apart from the small issue of cost, sounds like a plan to me

.

mattyg · 30 Oct 2017 at 17:38

Blackjack Davy said:
If its anything like the council buildings I was in today, its the heating.

Boiling hot its on constantly even though its the weekend and theres no one in till monday.

if its anything like our Council buildings the heating system is shared across 3 other building that are used over the weekends etc

spoffle · 30 Oct 2017 at 17:51

aardvark said:
lol, i must have missed this nonsense comment - all that is completely untrue.

Is it? It sounds like wind, geothermal, solar, and hyropower to me.

Sasahara · 30 Oct 2017 at 18:01

ubersonic said:
Technically speaking if you had air conditioning to every room then that would be cheaper via electricity than gas heating. It's just nobody builds houses like that* and the cost to retrofit would make any savings moot.

*If you have an 80's house with warm air (ducted) heating that can actually be converted relatively cheaply, but they aren't that common.

I believe most most warm air heating systems used in UK homes would use gas because it's cheaper. Your cheaper via electricity than gas doesn't make sense.
You only use electric when gas isn't available.
Electricity isn't as efficient as gas as the process to convert your energy source to electricity and transport it to your home uses significantly more energy than gas. (Which is why gas is a lot cheaper)

4K8KW10 · 30 Oct 2017 at 18:15

Six6siX said:
I agree. That 'wasted' heat is especially useful in summer.

UK summers are cool enough to actually need that additional heat...

I'm saying this because these power supplies are so expensive, that you will never return that investment.

Once we move 100% to reneweable energies, the willingness to save energy should dramatically drop.

Sasahara · 30 Oct 2017 at 18:24

touch said:
It's the same for fossil fuels. Transporting them to the point where you burn it will also incur losses.
I'd say that shipping the gas in a tanker from USA probably incurs more losses than transmitting electricity hundreds of miles down a cable.

And then when the gas does get here there's losses in the pipelines through friction similar to the losses of transmitting electricity through a cable. I dont know how the numbers would compare though - I'm no fluid dynamics expert.

Someone has already addressed the tanker issue, though it may be slightly more efficient to ship this than crude oil.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/facts-and-figures/heat-values-of-various-fuels.aspx

Natural uranium looks good at 3900 GJ/kg.

The gas doesn't get lost though friction. The costs for transportation as just getting it into the system, which is very low cost compared to generating electricity. And a tiny amount of escaped gas.

Six6siX · 30 Oct 2017 at 18:31

4K8KW10 said:
UK summers are cool enough to actually need that additional heat...

What? Most people don’t need the heating on during 2/3rds of the year. Not to save money especially but because it’s warm enough to not need it...UK summers are plenty warm enough! We don’t live in a he arctic...

I'm saying this because these power supplies are so expensive, that you will never return that investment.

Efficiency isn’t the only reason for higher cost when it comes to PSUs.

Once we move 100% to reneweable energies, the willingness to save energy should dramatically drop.

Tell me more about how people won’t want to save money anymore when we are completely on renewable energy!

aardvark · 30 Oct 2017 at 18:39

spoffle said:
Is it? It sounds like wind, geothermal, solar, and hyropower to me.

the planet isn't generating that energy, we are merely converting the energy it possesses - there is no perpetual motion going on here!

edit: and from the sun of course

Sasahara · 30 Oct 2017 at 18:45

aardvark said:
the planet isn't generating that energy, we are merely converting the energy it possesses - there is no perpetual motion going on here!

edit: and from the sun of course

The planet does generate the geothermal energy. But even that won't last forever, but we probably don't need to worry about that.

spoffle · 30 Oct 2017 at 18:45

aardvark said:
the planet isn't generating that energy, we are merely converting the energy it possesses - there is no perpetual motion going on here!

edit: and from the sun of course

Well in a sense, it's emitting energy perpetually... The earth is in constant motion. I know in literal terms, it's finite energy. But from our perspective, for all intents and purposes it is perpetual energy.

touch · 30 Oct 2017 at 20:16

Sasahara said:
Someone has already addressed the tanker issue, though it may be slightly more efficient to ship this than crude oil.
http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/facts-and-figures/heat-values-of-various-fuels.aspx

There's not much info on that page of what the figures actually are but I think it's energy released per kilo of fuel burned? - so doesn't take into account the transportation costs of those fuels.

Sasahara said:
The gas doesn't get lost though friction. The costs for transportation as just getting it into the system, which is very low cost compared to generating electricity. And a tiny amount of escaped gas.

The gas itself doesnt get lost through friction but extra energy has to be used to overcome the friction . Gas has weight and therefor it costs energy to move it, that energy has to come from somewhere.

UTmaniac · 30 Oct 2017 at 21:13

Space. And my giant cannabis jungle.

ubersonic · 30 Oct 2017 at 23:32

Sasahara said:
I believe most most warm air heating systems used in UK homes would use gas because it's cheaper. Your cheaper via electricity than gas doesn't make sense.

Read it again, I was saying that heating via electricity using air conditioning is cheaper than heating using gas (just ridiculously expensive to install unless a new build). The separate comment about houses with warm air systems being cheaper to convert to AC due to the compatibility with ducted systems was just a footnote.