Apple losing its edge?

[Terminal_Boy]

It’d be far more interesting if Steve was still alive. I wonder what he’d be making of Apple these days.

It would break his heart to see what Cook and the marketing team have done to his beloved engineering company.

Everyone involved in the iMac Pro where the base model is £4,899 would have been fired for a start.

 

[Deleted member 77746]

All I can see is that Apple need to reduce their prices and pass some of the profits onto the customers. I don't see a problem anywhere else with the company as their products are still in my eyes the best on the market today for devices but the prices are a little high.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

It would break his heart to see what Cook and the marketing team have done to his beloved engineering company.

Everyone involved in the iMac Pro where the base model is £4,899 would have been fired for a start.

The iMac pro doesn't represent that poor of a value compared to the competition from people like Dell for a proper workstation PC. The price of a 5k screen is £1,000-1,200 alone. The Phillips and Dell ones are both made from cheap plastic so look.... cheap.

The closest thing I can get to it AIO wise on the Dell website costs £3100 by the time you spec it up to ECC ram and 1TB PCI-e SSD. But doesn't have a 5k display, 10gb LAN and is only a quad-core CPU and Radeon Pro X4150. Not even in the same league as the iMac Pro.


A Dell Precision 5820 configured up with an 8 core, 32gb EEC, 10gb lan and a 1TB NVME SSD and Radeon Pro X5100 is £4159. Once you add on the 5K screen its more like £5400.

The Vega 56 is also far faster in the iMac.

Still looking like poor value?

 

[Combat squirrel]

The iMac pro doesn't represent that poor of a value compared to the competition from people like Dell for a proper workstation PC. The price of a 5k screen is £1,000-1,200 alone. The Phillips and Dell ones are both made from cheap plastic so look.... cheap.

The closest thing I can get to it AIO wise on the Dell website costs £3100 by the time you spec it up to ECC ram and 1TB PCI-e SSD. But doesn't have a 5k display, 10gb LAN and is only a quad-core CPU and Radeon Pro X4150. Not even in the same league as the iMac Pro.


A Dell Precision 5820 configured up with an 8 core, 32gb EEC, 10gb lan and a 1TB NVME SSD and Radeon Pro X5100 is £4159. Once you add on the 5K screen its more like £5400.

The Vega 56 is also far faster in the iMac.

Still looking like poor value?

Your right - but as Dave 2D points out - the machine sort of still doesn't make sense - someone that NEEDS ECC isn't really worried about budget........maybe someone at pixar would use it best where millions of dollars of film are on the line........maybe a 'nice to have' science workstation but - as it loads at 95c someone that NEEDS ECC, will buy a £25000 dell that will 'max load' at 60c and have 4 GPU's.

However as content creator (like myself, full time photo/video) - it's a 'nice to have' - kind of a smug superiority your using work station grade stuff in a beautiful machine - its a ferrari, over powered, beautiful - but if you want to get something done on an industrial scale - you use the appropriate device, a tank, a ship, a plane etc - all achieve the same goal (getting from A-B), but in so many different ways.............

That's how I see an iMac Pro - a beautiful super car - looks, POWER - it WILL get the job done - but do you need it ?

I have a Ryzen & 32gb ram and a 980ti - its 90% as fast as the imac pro - the CPU is ball park similar at the same clock speed - the rams actually faster (and never fails so often i think i need ECC ram) and 980ti is abit slower, but plenty enough for my work, of course I can wack in a new one if I needed it - but for content creators the imac pro is desirable but........only if you have spare cash

I'd love one don't get me wrong - and yes for the componants its 'good value' - but really, most people who buy it wont NEED server grade parts, they should have offered one with a normal i9 processor and non ECC ram.......it would likely have been faster as well, but apple won't do that sadly, could have sold it for £2500-3000 and everyone would buy one, an 'imac plus' I guess, they could have imac, imac plus and imac pro if you defo need ECC/Xeon.

 

[mrochester]

Yeah siri will do it - but did u lift your arm to your face and tell the watch ? the mics on the echo are better and you can just say it in the room and it does it

Don't get me wrong - I have all the apple gadgets - watch, phone, recently got them, love the eco system.

But also for the money (£35) an echo dot in a kitchen is a godsend - if you have audio books, also amazing - just had my echo dot playing that book as I made a slow cooker meal - easy, didnt have to talk to my watch, bring my phone to the kitchen etc



Can tell your married - if the wife says it, must be true haha !

Again I think you guys are missing the point - sure our phones can do it - hell a phone from 1970 can phone people - why did you get your iphone that can do the same thing??? See what what im saying?????

It's more hassle pulling a phone out a pocket - thats a fact, but yes it will set a timer.

Its because its there, its always on - you just say it anywhere in the room (I have one in the kitchen, bedroom, office) - my next purchase will be an echo plus as a home hub then ill use it to control heating, lighting etc as well - also you can set it to turn lights on and off just talking to it when your out - good security. - again a phone can do this sure - but not a home hub.

The convienience, better voice pick up - amazon services, multi platform cross compatability (I have kindle, audible, music, video on my phone, ipad etc also) and all can be used off the echo's, it really is good.

If you don't use any of amazons services u can still listen to radio stations and timers and reminders, and calander features.

I just tried to play the radio using siri on my iphone - it didnt work, at all, started playing some random music off itunes - a track that wasn't even close to 'play planet rock' - i then tried 'play planet rock on tune in' - non of it worked - i just simply said play planet rock to the echo and it worked instantly using the tune in skill (app) - this is why its better (also tried radio 1, 2 just incase, siri didn't work)

I don’t listen to audiobooks or the radio. I also don’t subscribe to any of these ‘pay for the rest of your life or lose access’ services such as Prime, Spotify or Netflix. My music is all local (which the Echo can’t play AFAIK), and when I want to play music, it’s much easier to direct it straight from my phone to my Bluetooth speakers than phone, Echo, Bluetooth speakers.

If lifting my wrist to speak to my watch is the only thing I need to do to make these smart speaker devices entirely redundant, it doesn’t say much about their usefulness.

The only thing I do listen to out load that a smart speaker could play for me are podcasts. However, looking around it doesn’t look like Pocketcasts works with the Echo at least, and how do you pick an episode to play when you can’t see them? I don’t necessarily know the name of all the podcasts I subscribe to.

 

[mrochester]

Using it to turn lights on and off is pointless 21 century solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I don't see how that is good security? Thieves don't give a **** if your home or not these days. Even having things like CCTV can be easily evaded with some basic countermeasures. The chances of getting caught are pretty minimal unless you are literally caught red handed.

Same with heating, set and forget with any decent 7 day timer and thermostat combo, if its programmed properly (which takes seconds) for your routine then Hive/Nest doesn't actually save you any money. Alexa also doesn't do anything that the Hive/Nest app doesn't already do.

You have really pulled out the key thing there which is Amazon services. If you don't subscribe (which I don't) then their functionality is significantly reduced. I also don't listen to the radio often at all.

Has anyone worked out how long it takes before the investment in a hive or nest thermostat takes to pay itself off?

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Has anyone worked out how long it takes before the investment in a hive or nest thermostat takes to pay itself off?

It will entirely depend on how will the person programmed their 7 day timer in the first place, what assumptions they are using and how well its maintained as usage/season changes. It will also depend on how thermally insulated your house is and how much you are home.

 

[Tunney]

Everyone involved in the iMac Pro where the base model is £4,899 would have been fired for a start.

You obviously don’t remember the G4 Cube.

Apple’s next financials are due on 1st February and will include initial figures for the iPhone X. We’ll soon see if Apple is losing its edge.

My prediction is another record quarter.

 

[sesevans]

You obviously don’t remember the G4 Cube.

Apple’s next financials are due on 1st February and will include initial figures for the iPhone X. We’ll soon see if Apple is losing its edge.

My prediction is another record quarter.

Perhaps you are right. From today's Wall Street Journal:

"
Two activist shareholders want Apple to develop tools and research effects on young people of smartphone overuse and addiction

The iPhone has made Apple Inc. and Wall Street hundreds of billions of dollars. Now some big shareholders are asking at what cost.

A leading activist and a pension fund are launching an unusual campaign against the smartphone maker, saying it needs to respond to what some see as a growing public-health crisis of youth phone addiction."

 

[sesevans]

Obviously your already closed to the thought of it and finding reasons it's not useful to you so naturally you won't see its value.

Again your making the same point, again why buy an iPhone when a £10 house phone does the job?....because it's more convenient, does it better and in new useful ways?

Lights on and off is am extremely well known security action, you have been able to buy timers for years because everyone knows that lights going on and off while ur ok holiday is another part of the security puzzle that may put off thieves......iv done it for years, just now as tech improves it's got more sophisticated, you can set alexa to turn them on and off at random or timer, never had a break in.....maybe if someone was thinking of breaking in...and a light came on they thought better of it.

Anyways I don't have shares in amazon and I'm not trying to make u get one.....but they are extremely useful.....but don't say it's useless otherwise I'll ask why did u buy an iPhone when a £10 phone does the job! Lol

Returning to my original post on this thread about whether delays in Apple shipment of products is or is not significant, I believe that its most recent delay in shipping the HomePad might be more significant than some posters here believe. Not from the overall profit of the Company by any means but in terms of whether it might be a missed opportunity with longer run significance.

I am delighted with using Amazon Alexa's main competitor called Google Home and also find it very useful in controlling many home function, playing music and podcasts and radio and for search. But it is hard to convince someone who seems dead-set against using a smart voice activated speaker. In time I think their view will be overtaken by events and facts on the ground. An obvious area of value would be in vehicles and Google has been particularly active in this area with Android Auto (as has Apple).

However, I do think the following statements recently made by Amazon and Google to be significant:

1. Amazon has said that it has sold tens of millions of Alexa devices in 2017.

2. Google has said it has sold tens of millions of Google Home devices that use Google Assistant making a point of saying that since the holiday selling season began in October 2017 it has sold one device every second, which some calculate to mean more than 6 million.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/05/g...le-home-device-every-second-since-october-19/

3. Google has previously said that more than 20% of all search on mobile devices (remember they are the search engine for both Android and Apple) is now done by voice. They have also said that more than 400 million Android phones have Google Assistant built-in.

4. Clearly both Google and Amazon agree with your view that a smart voice assistant is a huge opportunity and I expect that during the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas this week, both will be making this very point. Google has publicly stated that they are an AI (artificial intelligence) company first and foremost and the integration of Google Assistant, combined with their machine learning skills as a Company, might set them apart in the long run. They already extensively use machine learning in search, YouTube and other products and services.

5. Apple announced that they are delaying shipping their competitor, HomePod until 2018 so they do see it as an important addition to their product line up. Their approach is to offer a product at a high price point with high quality sound for music. Google already launched a competitive product last quarter, the Google Home Max, with a similar high quality sound and a similar price point. It will be interesting if your and my view of the large potential for the smart voice activated device assistant in many products and services are as irrelevant as some posters believe.

These other posters see the HomePod as an unimportant product in the total scheme of things within Apple and perhaps they are right. Time will tell. At the moment, the iPhone profits are more than 60% of Apple's total profits so it would be hard for any product or service to out-do it within the Apple ecosystem.

Will we look back and say that Apple missed the boat on the Homepad launch and will there be a big market for this product at such a high price point when it launches? The Guardian comment last week--Siri is mentioned as a point of weakness that could have led to the delay:

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...mart-speakers-stole-the-show-from-smartphones

Google is clearly trying to get Google Assistant everywhere:

https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/06/google-assistant-taking-over-ces-2018/

 

[Combat squirrel]

Returning to my original post on this thread about whether delays in Apple shipment of products is or is not significant, I believe that its most recent delay in shipping the HomePad might be more ....SNIP

Good post - yup these devices will become as part of life as smart phones are now - kind of the home 'smart device' and when out and about we still have our 'smart' phone.

 

[sesevans]

Good post - yup these devices will become as part of life as smart phones are now - kind of the home 'smart device' and when out and about we still have our 'smart' phone.

To support your thesis, here is a new survey: People with devices like the Google Home and Amazon Echo use phones less

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/06/amazon-echo-and-other-assistants-often-lower-smartphone-use.html

Google has promised this feature in the UK soon and like Amazon has already introduced it in the US.

 

[Combat squirrel]

To support your thesis, here is a new survey: People with devices like the Google Home and Amazon Echo use phones less

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/06/amazon-echo-and-other-assistants-often-lower-smartphone-use.html

Google has promised this feature in the UK soon and like Amazon has already introduced it in the US.

Well reasoned discussions with evidence, politely put like a gentleman of the world ? - This isn't OCUK !! Where's the emotionally driven factless nonsense ? haha

Yes, it makes sense, I do use my phone less in the house - quite possibly why I wrote previously, I don't take my phone around the house with me once I'm home, just gets dropped on the wireless charger.

 

[mrochester]

To support your thesis, here is a new survey: People with devices like the Google Home and Amazon Echo use phones less

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/06/amazon-echo-and-other-assistants-often-lower-smartphone-use.html

Google has promised this feature in the UK soon and like Amazon has already introduced it in the US.

It seems from this evidence you can assume that these smart speakers are simply doing what our smartphones can already do.

 

[ic1male]

All I can see is that Apple need to reduce their prices and pass some of the profits onto the customers.

Yeah, I don't understand why they need to have $250 bn in cash reserves. Why so high? What on earth are they going to do with all that money?

 

[Tunney]

Yeah, I don't understand why they need to have $250 bn in cash reserves. Why so high? What on earth are they going to do with all that money?

They’re currently spending it on share buybacks and dividends. A lot of it is also held abroad and US tax law means that it’s expensive to repatriate it.

 

[sesevans]

They’re currently spending it on share buybacks and dividends. A lot of it is also held abroad and US tax law means that it’s expensive to repatriate it.

There has been a significant development in the US tax laws recently enacted by Congress. In the US Tax Act, there is a provision which reduces corporate taxes from 35% to 21% but more significantly it creates a one time tax of 15.5% on cash earnings repatriated to the US. So Apple is rumoured to be considering repatriating approximately $ 200 billion (of its total $ 250 billion cash) at the lower tax rate. I expect Apple will boost both its dividend and its share buy back schemes but it also might use the money for additional job hiring, capital expenditures and perhaps corporate acquisitions.

Google, which currently holds in excess of $ 100 billion cash is considering what to do with its $ 60 billion held overseas.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

It's just mad how much money they have overseas but that nice windfall will be a nice boost for the US treasury, should pay for the wall....

Time will really tell when it comes to smart speakers, they may have seen massive growth and sold millions of them but I don't see that as sustainable in the long term. The market will saturate. Comparisons could be made to tablets which saw huge levels of growth but now sales are very much in decline. 3D TV's, VR headsets, hell even tamagochi's all saw the same things and didn't stand the test of time.

The main money spinner on these is Prime subscriptions etc. I would be interested to see the numbers on the un-subscribe rate between those that have one and those that don't. Likewise those that subscribed after getting one and kept it. Way too early to draw any conclusions on this though given its an annual sub. Likewise I would be interested on the amount of long term users that use it not at all, once per day, twice per day, three times per day and 5+ per day and split between subscribers and non subscribers. Needless to say we are never going to see those.

I agree that voice search is getting much more popular but there is a big difference between using voice search on a home speaker and using it on a phone. The phone can show you something like a web page or video. That's so much more useful than doing it on a speaker.

The main issue that Apple have with the Homepod is that Siri is just poor compared to the other three on the market (Google, Amazon and Samsung).

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Voice search with Alexa (on an Echo, Dot or Sonos) is unparalleled tbh.

I have Sonos units throughout the home and they play my Apple Music, as well as having Alexa voice control.

Cooking and listening to music are my daily uses as well as random info e.g convert x to y.

The microphones on the Echo or the Sonos are so far beyond the iPhone it’s a joke. I can call out across the room and the device hears me, even if Music is playing. On my iPhone... no chance unless it’s on mute. That’s been my biggest eye opener and one I couldn’t live without.

Are Apple struggling? Not really.. they’ve just lost the ability to make a dent in the market like they used to because they’re already everywhere!

 

[delta0]

Apple have not had an edge for a while. Where they do work well is the entire system, reliability and security. I do own Apple products and will continue to but they should focus on making innovation leaps. With innovation comes IP and the competitors can’t copy. They do rely on the brand too much which can only last so long.