An argument over dinner

Screeeech said:
But what you've said doesn't address the specific scenario or question being asked.
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You have asked whether a transwoman meets the criteria to fill the role reserved for a female

They cannot by definition.

transwoman
ˈtranzwʊmən/
noun
  1. a male-to-female transsexual.
Dictionary


female
ˈfiːmeɪl/
adjective
  1. 1.
    of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.
    "a herd of female deer"
  2. noun
  1. 1.
    a female person, animal, or plant.
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If you were filling roles assigned due to gender, then that is a ballpark. Regardless practicality does not play into it, you are just selecting based on meeting a quote of different criteria.
 
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Avenged7Fold said:
You have asked whether a transwoman meets the criteria to fill the role reserved for a female
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Exactly,

Considering the obvious physical and psychological differences between a woman and a trans woman, is it ok with you that a trans woman would fill a role that's ring-fenced for a woman, (regardless of dictionary definitions regarding sex) is it ok or not ?
 
Psychological differences dont play into it.

Your requirements are for 3 males and 3 females. If that is the case, you cannot fill it with 6 males where 3 are transwomen.

If you are pushing for a different kind of discussion, i think your example and question are phrased wrong...
 
Equality is not having an equal portion of each gender though, That is quota filling. Equality is everyone having an equal chance on getting the role based on Experience\Education\Ability instead of having a specific set of organs and whether or not they still have the ones they were born with.

I am not sure why their ability to have a child or bleed each month factors into their ability to do a role short of them having to take 6-12 months off of the role to look after said spawn.... Which is a legal entitlement and CAN be mostly given to the male these days anyway.

As for whether or not a Trans woman should be treated as a woman, If the law states this is the case then this is the case. If that person thinks they are a woman and dresses\Acts\Looks\Has the relevant parts...then they are a woman. I do however think there are degrees to this and it is not quite a black and white as I have said.
 
Going back a step, why is it right to elect 3 men and 3 women? What if 5 women are the most suitable candidates, do you have to tell 2 they don't get the job because they're the wrong sex and elect 2 lesser candidates just because they're the correct sex?
 
Kiyoshi said:
Going back a step, why is it right to elect 3 men and 3 women? What if 5 women are the most suitable candidates, do you have to tell 2 they don't get the job because they're the wrong sex and elect 2 lesser candidates just because they're the correct sex?
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To be honest, this isn't really a question of whether gender based quotas are right or wrong, it's more a question of what happens if you enforce gender based quotas in employment, whilst simultaneously allowing people to identify with either group out of personal preference, and then expect those same "group rights" to filter down and apply to them.
 
Due to the sheer number of "Genders and Identities" available in the modern world it would next to impossible to do this though right?
 
arknor said:
would it be fair if someone who identified as male got pregnant and wanted the full maternity leave a woman would get compared to the length of time a man would get.
or is that feminism
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Seeing as the 12 months maternity can now be split any way you like I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. Told my wife if she wants another she can have the first 3 months and I'm having the last 9 off, she's already had 24 months off with the first 2 :D
 
Nitefly said:
Strange question to ask over dinner... it’s a like a trap designed to prove a reaction. Why ask the question if the only interesting thing that come out of it is a rise? :p

I trust you all went to the strip club afterwards :D
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Sex, Politics and quite possibly Religion too. Hat trick!
 
All positions could be filled with Disabled Transgender beardy dwarfs If they were the best people for the job. Wanting a mix of male/female just for the sake of being PC is a road to doom.
 
Agree with the OP here - regardless how/why/when someone decided to change their gender - they would have been treated by society based on their biological gender probably for most of their life into their teens. They would therefore not have the experience of their new gender compared to someone who had lived that life.
 
silvagti said:
Plus you end up with authoritarians who are more interested in enforcing equality them getting the job done which ruins productivity.
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Their job is to ensure equal proportional representation... and since people are making up ever-increasing numbers of different things with which to identify, and be represented by, the job is never done.

Screeeech said:
The question being asked is; if you enforce equality (eg: quotas of certain groups, filling certain positions, etc) is it ok to allow individuals to be part of a group, if they merely identify as being part of it, in light of the fact that they don't posses any of the unique characteristics, that would automatically include them as being part of that group.
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The answer is simply NO!!
The reason is that it doesn't matter what the heck they identify as, unless everyone else in the group with which they identify and wish to represent actually accepts the individual as one of them and as a sufficiently representative example of their group.

In short, ask how many free-born biological/cis/proper/original/whatever women would want a transwoman representing their best interests...

Woogie said:
Equality is everyone having an equal chance on getting the role based on Experience\Education\Ability instead of having a specific set of organs and whether or not they still have the ones they were born with.
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Apparently it's all down to things like chromosomes and DNA now, Gattaca style, especially if you want to be a female athlete!!

Woogie said:
As for whether or not a Trans woman should be treated as a woman, If the law states this is the case then this is the case. If that person thinks they are a woman and dresses\Acts\Looks\Has the relevant parts...then they are a woman. I do however think there are degrees to this and it is not quite a black and white as I have said.
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No more a woman than Michael Jackson was a white guy... :p
 
It's been at the point where the best people are not getting jobs because of gender equality for a long time and it works both ways, but your not allowed to say that because it upsets women. Also the idea we should all be paid equally is rubbish, do footballers get paid the same? of course not and it has nothing to do with gender.

I'm sick of hearing about it,
 
To be honest, these promotions to director positions and filling the board up are not for the sake of equality but for the illusion of equality and really for the sake of public image. I dont think anyone who makes these decisions really believe it is due to equality.
 
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