Dodgy dealings outside my house

[asim18]

Of course. My own view is that this is the wrong approach.



I disagree that intervention is the wrong thing to do. We have a police force for a reason, to uphold the laws in the country. I don't think that wilfully ignoring a crime because someone else will be along to continue that crime later is the right approach.



So intervention is the right thing to do in this instance? Perhaps you could just stay on topic and talk about the actual situation in hand, rather than play the Trump and Brexit cards. That topic, you know, where your view is that the best approach to crime is just to ignore it.

Oh you are an elaborate troll. You are now strawmanning and lying.

Where have I said "the best approach to crime is just to ignore it."??? You have absolutely made up a complete and utter falsity.

I said the best approach is to talk to them about not throwing rubbish in their garden! What a liar you are!

 

[The_Abyss]

Oh you are an elaborate troll. You are now strawmanning and lying.

Where have I said "the best approach to crime is just to ignore it."??? You have absolutely made up a complete and utter falsity.

I said the best approach is to talk to them about not throwing rubbish in their garden! What a liar you are!

Think about the consequences of your intervention for a second. You are trying to put a wedge in something people want to do and will continue to do.

Best case scenario they will get spooked and move somewhere else, worse case scenarios you will cause paranoia within a gang, someone might end up ratting, someone could get killed over this, possible future gang bloodshed, all while the person who wanted his drugs will STILL continue to find and take his drugs.

The fact is that the drug user will continue to get whatever drugs they want, it's also a fact that drug prohibition is completely not working and in any and all cases, it makes the issue much worse and leads to potential increases in other more serious crimes; is to just ignore it.

Lets try to forget all the propaganda and lies we've been fed about drugs as children and try to grow up and deal with things face on. If you're worried about rubbish, I'm sure a drug dealer will be EXTREMELY glad that you came and had a word with them. If you shop this guy you are just going to get an unprofessional dealer/young child take his place.

To be fair, you did try and address the point about littering. Your point about littering. But the OP was concerned about drug dealing.

Still, let's not make it personal. You've failed at that twice now.

Oh look a troll has arrived, very entertaining. Perhaps you could at least stay on topic and talk about the actual situation at hand, rather than get personal.

Maybe express some reasoning of your own which relates to the actual situation here. You know discussion forum and all that.

 

[asim18]

To be fair, you did try and address the point about littering. Your point about littering. But the OP was concerned about drug dealing.

Still, let's not make it personal. You've failed at that twice now.

I'm making it personal? What on earth? You're the one who made it personal. Then started lying.

So me calling you out on a complete lie you posted about me, is me getting personal??? I'm not allowed to say you've posted a lie? You're the one who's come here and started talking about my common sense and posted a lie, lmao.

Wow, this is unbelievable trolling. Amazing tactics you have.

To be fair, you did try and address the point about littering. Your point about littering. But the OP was concerned about drug dealing.

Stop lying AGAIN. Op was certainly concerned about littering too! Read the OP!

 

[PiKe]

Obviously hocking boxes of quavers.

 

[asim18]

OP said he "assumes" they're drug deals because there was a brown box. The main thing actually affecting the OP is rubbish. Not drug deals, there are thousands of drug deals going on everywhere doesn't automatically affect the OP. The rubbish and possible noise is the main issue here.

 

[hyperseven]

OP said he "assumes" they're drug deals because there was a brown box. The main thing actually affecting the OP is rubbish. Not drug deals, there are thousands of drug deals going on everywhere doesn't automatically affect the OP. The rubbish and possible noise is the main issue here.

Wrong. The perception that they are drug dealing is obviously, psychologically affecting the OP. Quite plain if you bother to read the OP

 

[The_Abyss]

I'm making it personal? What on earth? You're the one who made it personal. Then started lying.

So me calling you out on a complete lie you posted about me, is me getting personal??? I'm not allowed to say you've posted a lie? You're the one who's come here and started talking about my common sense and posted a lie, lmao.

Wow, this is unbelievable trolling. Amazing tactics you have.

Stop lying AGAIN. Op was certainly concerned about littering too! Read the OP!

OP said he "assumes" they're drug deals because there was a brown box. The main thing actually affecting the OP is rubbish. Not drug deals, there are thousands of drug deals going on everywhere doesn't automatically affect the OP. The rubbish and possible noise is the main issue here.

The OP was concerned about possible drug dealing. Some litter was put in his garden. He wasn't bothered by either enough to take any action until his g/f noticed and became frightened. I've made the bold assumption that she was instead rather frightened by the prospect of drug dealers outside their house rather then being frightened by litter.

You asked for an opinion, while calling a troll. I gave my opinion, and you responded with a personal naming of a troll again. Now you've brought up the subject of telling lies, twice, but I've been polite enough to quote and highlight the points in question. You've since made a third accusation of trolling, and talked about 'tactics'. All of which doesn't address the questions made against the points you raised, quoted several times already, when you suggested that the best way forward was not to report this to police because an unprofessional drug dealer would take over instead and the police have bigger issues to deal with than people 'loitering'.

 

[asim18]

Wrong. The perception that they are drug dealing is obviously, psychologically affecting the OP. Quite plain if you bother to read the OP

Oh crap mental health. You're right mental health is serious issue these days. Just look how frightened people are of drug dealers....

The OP was concerned about possible drug dealing. Some litter was put in his garden. He wasn't bothered by either enough to take any action until his g/f noticed and became frightened. I've made the bold assumption that she was instead rather frightened by the prospect of drug dealers outside their house rather then being frightened by litter.

Right so you think the police should be called when people get frightened. haha at least littering is an offence!!!! And you're talking about calling police just because someone might, just might, be drug dealing.

You asked for an opinion, while calling a troll. I gave my opinion, and you responded with a personal naming of a troll again. Now you've brought up the subject of telling lies, twice, but I've been polite enough to quote and highlight the points in question. You've since made a third accusation of trolling, and talked about 'tactics'. All of which doesn't address the questions made against the points you raised, quoted several times already, when you suggested that the best way forward was not to report this to police because an unprofessional drug dealer would take over instead and the police have bigger issues to deal with than people 'loitering'.

I called troll because your first post was a troll post and personal nonsense.

I called lie because you said "your view is that the best approach to crime is just to ignore it." Which is 100% a lie.

 

[FortuitousFluke]

Right so you think the police should be called when people get frightened. haha at least littering is an offence!!!! And you're talking about calling police just because someone might, just might, be drug dealing

It's perfectly reasonable to call the police when you suspect that something illegal is going on. At the end of the day the activity occurring outside the OPs house appears to be unusual, we know that because if it wasn't we wouldn't be having this conversation. There's nothing wrong with reporting suspicious behaviour, in fact the police encourage it.

As for your previous comments about not getting involved because it might lead to another, less professional drug dealer taking over....im just not going to bother.

 

[asim18]

Also you've just now lied yet again.. this is an unprecedented amount of lies and strawmans.

when you suggested that the best way forward was not to report this to police because an unprofessional drug dealer would take over instead and the police have bigger issues to deal with than people 'loitering'

I didn't say don't report it just because a new dealer will take over. I said have a word with him about the litter, and I said drug laws were pointless because new dealers will take over because the demand is always there.

 

[FortuitousFluke]

Deleting this as response wasn't to me. Late night posting fail

 

[The_Abyss]

Right so you think the police should be called when people get frightened. haha at least littering is an offence!!!! And you're talking about calling police just because someone might, just might, be drug dealing.

I called troll because your first post was a troll post and personal nonsense.

I called lie because you said "your view is that the best approach to crime is just to ignore it." Which is 100% a lie.

I've quoted you on all the above, just so it is clear. Yes, I do think the police should be called. So do the police: https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q97.htm

You called troll twice more again, after I addressed the points you raised. I then quoted the point you said was a lie, and highlighted the relevant parts of your post.

Also you've just now lied yet again.. this is an unprecedented amount of lies and strawmans.

I didn't say don't report it just because a new dealer will take over. I said have a word with him about the litter, and I said drug laws were pointless because new dealers will take over because the demand is always there.

What you actually said was that by reporting the crime you could cause paranoia, somebody could be killed and there could be bloodshed, and that nothing would be resolved, in fact it would be worse, and to just ignore it. And that another consequence could be a unprofessional drug dealer taking over instead, or a child. I'll remind you below.

Think about the consequences of your intervention for a second. You are trying to put a wedge in something people want to do and will continue to do.

Best case scenario they will get spooked and move somewhere else, worse case scenarios you will cause paranoia within a gang, someone might end up ratting, someone could get killed over this, possible future gang bloodshed, all while the person who wanted his drugs will STILL continue to find and take his drugs.

The fact is that the drug user will continue to get whatever drugs they want, it's also a fact that drug prohibition is completely not working and in any and all cases, it makes the issue much worse and leads to potential increases in other more serious crimes; is to just ignore it.

Lets try to forget all the propaganda and lies we've been fed about drugs as children and try to grow up and deal with things face on. If you're worried about rubbish, I'm sure a drug dealer will be EXTREMELY glad that you came and had a word with them. If you shop this guy you are just going to get an unprofessional dealer/young child take his place.

You've already tried to distract with Trump and Brexit earlier in this thread. Some pretty big ticket subjects of debate right there if you're going to call me quoting and responding to you as an 'unprecedented amount of lies'.

 

[asim18]

So your suggestion, just to clarify, I wouldn't want to be accused of being a liar, is to ask the drug dealers (assuming that's what they are) to kindly stop dropping litter, but to otherwise turn a blind eye to them dealing on the OPs street?

If you're just "assuming" they're drug dealers then NO, of course you should not report them for being drug dealers! What if the attending officer immediately nicks the guy because they have a witness but then it turns out he's not even a drug dealer, and the witness was just "assuming".


If you've seen them littering, then yes have a word with them about littering if it is ending up in your garden.

What you actually said was that by reporting the crime you could cause paranoia, somebody could be killed and there could be bloodshed, and that nothing would be resolved, in fact it would be worse, and to just ignore it. And that another consequence could be a unprofessional drug dealer taking over instead, or a child. I'll remind you below.

Oh finally! You've posted what i "actually said" thank you so much

Yes. This is correct and that is pretty much what happens with the war on drugs.

 

[The_Abyss]

You're welcome, I'm equally glad you've noticed after the fourth time I've posted it, and you've only now addressed it.

I'm glad you can see the difference in inference between a) should I call the police and risk by reporting the crime causing paranoia, somebody could be killed and there could be bloodshed, and that nothing would be resolved, in fact it would be worse, and to just ignore it. And that another consequence could be a unprofessional drug dealer taking over instead, or a child. Or b) should I do nothing.

It feels very much like you're advocating option b - do nothing. Oh, apart from the litter, which nobody was bothered enough about to do anything in the first place. Unless the OP's g/f has a genuine fear of litter.

I'm struggling with the inconsistency. On the one had we have the view that the police should not be called to intervene if there's a suspicion of drug dealing occurring. On the other we have the view that the OP should go and intervene and speak to the suspected drug dealer about littering concerns.

If you're just "assuming" they're drug dealers then NO, of course you should not report them for being drug dealers! What if the attending officer immediately nicks the guy because they have a witness but then it turns out he's not even a drug dealer, and the witness was just "assuming".

For the second time, the police advice is inconsistent with your view: https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q97.htm

I think there are drug dealers on my street what can I do about it?

It is important that, if possible, you make a note of all the vehicles and where possible remember the description of the dealers and jot it down. All the information then needs to be passed onto your local police force, via their non-emergency number, or to the local drugs line through Crimestoppers.

Please do not put your own or another's personal safety at risk. The police will then investigate the incident. It is quite likely that the Police will not attend immediately as they will be gathering more evidence from other sources so that a successful prosecution can be brought.

Be assured that the police take the fight against drugs very seriously and we will do our utmost to help clear up the streets.

I'm also interpreting the advice in the above as inferring I should not go and speak to the suspected drug dealer about littering.

 

[asim18]

Yes. If OP is just assuming that they're drug dealers it's probably better off just ignoring it until we can rethink drug laws.
Yes. The litter is actually affecting the OP because it's actually physically landing in his garden. Drugs should never affect anyone except the USER. This is more about morality, not just blanket compliance with any and all laws without any thought like a sheep, just because they're laws.

For the second time, the police advice is inconsistent with your view:

Of course police advice is going to be inconsistent with my views of someone who thinks the war on drugs is pointless! The war on drugs has been a complete and utter failure. Where have you been? Most people have come to realise that drug laws are completely and utterly pointless and only make things worse.

The war on drugs has literally been going round in circles while I've been studying it in-depth for over a decade, I have witnessed first hand the sheer violence and bloodshed which stems from it, and spent real time with and tried to help over 100 victims, all of whom seem to be getting younger and younger. How long will we continue to allow something as silly as drugs to affect so many people OTHER than the USER. Drug prohibition itself is absolutely the root cause of so many more serious crimes such as robbery and murder.

That quote says "we will do our utmost to help clear up the streets", but in the 10 years I've been watching, the streets have just gotten dirtier and dirtier and dirtier.

Resources must be spent fixing the issue at the END of the chain. Wasting resources by intervening at random stages of drug trafficking will never solve anything and will never help anyone, and it will make the issue worse.

 

[The_Abyss]

Interesting thoughts. Back on the topic of the thread, that you were so keen to return to, I don't think it is reasonable to expect the OP to resolve the current situation by also resolving the global problems of drugs, so yes, for him, it is blanket compliance with the relevant laws. I'm fairly sure you're not advocating the OP attempt to solve his current issues by spending resources at the 'END of the chain'. And, for what it is worth, my own view is that I don't think it is reasonable for the OP and his g/f to accept the current situation and sit and wait until the world has rethought drug laws globally. Calling them thoughtless sheep for not doing that is dismissive and demonstrates a lack of empathy.

If you've a separate, wider point to make then perhaps you should recognise that before conflating different matters and accusing individuals and personally attack them, and just start your own thread.

 

[asim18]

If you've a separate, wider point to make then perhaps you should recognise that before conflating different matters and accusing individuals and personally attack them, and just start your own thread.

You came in here with a troll post personal attack and repeated lies and now you're repeatedly saying I'm personally attacking people lmao. What on earth you are comedy gold.

I was keen to discuss things rationally, not to have people like you start citing nothing but "you aint got common sense" nonsense.

Interesting thoughts. Back on the topic of the thread, that you were so keen to return to, I don't think it is reasonable to expect the OP to resolve the current situation by also resolving the global problems of drugs, so yes, for him, it is blanket compliance with the relevant laws. I'm fairly sure you're not advocating the OP attempt to solve his current issues by spending resources at the 'END of the chain'. And, for what it is worth, my own view is that I don't think it is reasonable for the OP and his g/f to accept the current situation and sit and wait until the world has rethought drug laws globally. Calling them thoughtless sheep for not doing that is dismissive and demonstrates a lack of empathy.

I don't even know what you're on about anymore you're just clutching every straw you can think of now and trying to twist things beyond recognition. Heck you've done it about 5 times already.

Nice how you say "interesting thoughts. back on the topic of the thread, that you were so keen to return to", and then talk a load of complete nonsense. I was keen for you to not personally attack people right off the bat without any rational discussion lol. You keep constantly twisting things and lying and then accusing ME of personally attacking when all I'm doing is calling out your lies and twisting of words

I'm just here discussing and posting my experience of drugs laws which are completely NON-personal and general points,

and you're just here repeatedly trolling me while accusing me of attacking you.

It's fine if you think calling the police will suitably resolve the OP's situation just say so and move along. I'm not saying it wont.

I am just here making general points about drugs which aren't personally aimed at any OcUK member at all.

If you've a separate, wider point to make then perhaps you should recognise that before conflating different matters and accusing individuals and personally attack them, and just start your own thread.

What on earth. I'm not sure if you're talking to me or yourself here. This is what YOU have done You're the one who failed to recognise my wider point and then personally attacked me

Just amazing. This is a thread about people who appear to look like drug dealers and I made a point about wider drug laws, you failed to recognise it, and personally attacked me, and then you lied and tried to twist my words, and then you're saying I'm the one who should recognise things and that I personally attack people. Just truly amazing. Stop twisting stuff please.

In fact I have reread my first post in this thread and I just cannot believe how badly you have twisted things. I actually recognised the fact that it will solve the OP's problems in my first post . All I was doing was listing some potential negative consequences. Before you came in with a complete and utter personal troll post followed by countless lies and putting words in my mouth.

And, for what it is worth, my own view is that I don't think it is reasonable for the OP and his g/f to accept the current situation and sit and wait until the world has rethought drug laws globally. Calling them thoughtless sheep for not doing that is dismissive and demonstrates a lack of empathy.

Still lying and putting words in my mouth. I never said OP or his girlfriend were mindless sheep.

And I'm not saying the OP has to wait until the world has rethought drug laws. I said he should go and talk to them about litter the thing he has physically seen. The assumption that they're drug dealers is just an assumption, in fact the OP said this in the OP.

He also said he's been seen peeking from the window, but you just seem to constantly ignore this fact. This fact could potentially put the OP in a dangerous situation, did you ever think about that?

You said I have personally attacked, I feel the need to address that and say I am very sorry if you feel that way and that's not what I intended. I did try to stay on a general topic/ideas rather than any specific people or personal stuff, and sorry if I didn't manage to do that and came across personal. I would have gone back and edited all the posts above into one shorter and clearer post but I'm not allowed to edit posts, but anyway this argument seems ridiculous if you think about it. Good thing is it's just a few posts and i won't be going further. Sufficed to say I am just as worried about the issue of drugs as anyone is but I just seem to have different ideas on how to go about sorting them out. Good morning.

 

[Em3bbs]

Good morning all!

 

[Rannoch]

Good morning all!

 

[Kol]

Yea, back on topic chaps. If you want to argue so much take it to PM. Also, some of those posts are longer than dissertations . How can anyone care that much about an internet argument?! 3am for you, I guess .