Employer fire safety responsibility

[PlacidCasual]

It will surprise some people but I approve of unions and this is one of those situations where they are extremely useful. But I'm guessing you have no unions at your place of work.

 

[piggeh]

I would ask your boss if they can get someone in just to have a look at fire safety to ensure it's all adequate. Once an expert opinion comes in saying it is unsafe they cannot ignore it. It is easier to get the nod to one thing rather than point out several issues.

Our LL used to carry out a shared fire risk assessment for all tenants as the actions of one could impact on the safety of others. Maybe talk to the LL about whether they are doing a FRA for all tenants or what their approach is.

 

[BattFink]

Speak to the Fire Brigade, a suprise inspection from the Fire Safety officer usually gets (whoever's responsible) attention quite quickly

 

[Lt_Red]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/1541/article/3/made

 

[=XDC=FluphyBunny]

It will surprise some people but I approve of unions and this is one of those situations where they are extremely useful. But I'm guessing you have no unions at your place of work.

Union response - walk out threaten boss. Boss closes. No job.

Say to your boss you are worried about fire safety and he needs to sort it out for both you and his safety. Fire extinguishers, correct signage yearly tests etc won't break the bank. Any incident will be the end of their business at the very least.

 

[Scania]

Hardly the same but at work our recently delivered new Volvo HGV's have all had their standard fit fire extinguishers removed, when asked why the reason is for health & safety reasons as we haven't been trained how to use them!!!!!

I'm all for H&S but crap like that you couldn't make up!

 

[wnb]

Why don't you be proactive and write a a fire saftety policy, an evacuation plan and a disaster plan for your boss. Suggest that he sends you on fire wardens course while your at it.

 

[Caged]

Why would somebody not qualified to write those plans volunteer to do so? Your office sounds like a death trap and you need to express to your boss how this isn't a "lol nope don't have plans for a fire" sort of event.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

I work in an office that is part of a larger building which is just about to get a new landlord (old company went bankrupt) and there has been questions raised over the fire safety of the whole building (new company are doing their assessments) but who is the responsible party for my office?

We basically have one water fire extinguisher (and lots of electrical equipment) which was last tested in 2005 in the office and no clear/explained/documented fire escape procedure, I just asked my boss and all I got was it's down over the roof into the back of a load of buildings and open a door with a key that leads into another business, he has never showed me any exit plan or anything and naturally now I am curious as to what happens in a fire, should I be pushing my boss or wait until the new company come in and do the required improvements?

Allow me to clear up, there's generally some good advice here but I'll fill in the blanks.

The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order places duties on the responsible person. In other words, your boss carries the operational duty of fire safety as he is in control. The landlord is responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of the alarm system and fire risk assessments.

Water extinguisher is used for combustibles and textiles. You want CO2 or dry power for an office with electrical equipment. Unless you want to throw all your electronic equipment out though I'd go with CO2. Again, the number, placement and type should be determined by the risk assessment (normally in accordance with the British standard).

Electrical items do NOT need to be tested annually. This is a common H&S myth. The electricity regulations state that they should be tested but gives no guidance on frequency and does not explicitly require you to even keep records (but obviously that's a good idea). Most businesses will PAT test once and rely on user / visual checks.

You CAN lock an emergency exit door if there's justification in a risk assessment but usually it 1) has to have an emergency key / override linked to the alarm system nearby 2) theres normally other exit routes within the permitted travel distances

Emergency planning, policy and drills is covered under the RRO so really it's pretty basic stuff. The fact you don't know it or haven't been told on induction is pretty worrying but keep on to them and see what they say.

@Scania... I can't speak for them but it's likely because discharging a CO2 extinguisher in a confined space would be a bad idea. Not saying you would... But they have to inform staff not to do that before they "go live". Information, instruction and training etc etc.

 

[Draeger]

Allow me to clear up, there's generally some good advice here but I'll fill in the blanks.

The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order places duties on the responsible person. In other words, your boss carries the operational duty of fire safety as he is in control. The landlord is responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of the alarm system and fire risk assessments.

Water extinguisher is used for combustibles and textiles. You want CO2 or dry power for an office with electrical equipment. Unless you want to throw all your electronic equipment out though I'd go with CO2. Again, the number, placement and type should be determined by the risk assessment (normally in accordance with the British standard).

Electrical items do NOT need to be tested annually. This is a common H&S myth. The electricity regulations state that they should be tested but gives no guidance on frequency and does not explicitly require you to even keep records (but obviously that's a good idea). Most businesses will PAT test once and rely on user / visual checks. We are duty bound to investigate instances such as those outlined by the OP. There are a few differences as far as legislation is concerned between England & Scotland but it's fundamentally the same, essentially.

You CAN lock an emergency exit door if there's justification in a risk assessment but usually it 1) has to have an emergency key / override linked to the alarm system nearby 2) theres normally other exit routes within the permitted travel distances

Emergency planning, policy and drills is covered under the RRO so really it's pretty basic stuff. The fact you don't know it or haven't been told on induction is pretty worrying but keep on to them and see what they say.

@Scania... I can't speak for them but it's likely because discharging a CO2 extinguisher in a confined space would be a bad idea. Not saying you would... But they have to inform staff not to do that before they "go live". Information, instruction and training etc etc.

I'd echo most of that advice but I'd also further compound the issue which the OP outlines by suggesting that they in the first instance, speak to their employer/dutyholder and voice their concerns. Secondly, if you get no joy from that port of call, contact your local Fire & Rescue Service and ask to speak to someone regarding this issue. Outline to them, your concerns.

I have over 27 years service in the Fire & Rescue Service, I'm currently a Watch Commander in my SDA as a Legislative Fire Safety Enforcement Officer.

 

[Lt_Red]

Regarding electrical testing of office equipment, periodic User Checks, formal Visual Inspection and Portable Appliance Testing (PAT) for office appliances and are generally accepted as those defined in the requirements of the IET code of conduct.

It varies on the test/visual inspection criteria but basically, class 1 or class 2 PAT tests should be carried out every 24 or 48 months depending on whether they are stationery portable, IT, or handheld.

Note that user checks and visual inspections are not recorded unless a fault is found. PAT testing must be recorded.

Whilst this is not legislation, it can be seen as tertiary in the event of a court overseeing events...

 

[Amp34]

A large warehouse that I used to work at, T.H.E. in Chesterton, used to chain the emergency fire exits shut to stop people nipping out for a smoke or pushing goods through the fence so they could come back later and pick them up after their shift.

How that place never got shut down is beyond me. Rumour was, they used to get prior warning of inspections so they could remove the chains.

My senior school used to do that. Half the fire escapes were chained shut so people couldn't go through them as doors at lunchtime.

I'd go and talk to the boss and also ask to go on a fire warden course. Then once that's done you can do an assessment yourself and provide recommendations (in writing). If they don't follow up on any of those then you have a good background for blowing the whistle. Give them a chance first though, especially if you like your job...

 

[Tefal]

There's no emergency lighting or anything in the whole building, one of the things that the guy last week from the new company mentioned needed changing.

There was a fire alarm system installed last year (which get tested regularly) by someone, but as far as designated assembly points go etc, risk assesments there is nothing.

How should I push this to get the attention it needs?

Phone the HSE

 

[Tefal]

Hardly the same but at work our recently delivered new Volvo HGV's have all had their standard fit fire extinguishers removed, when asked why the reason is for health & safety reasons as we haven't been trained how to use them!!!!!

I'm all for H&S but crap like that you couldn't make up!

Could they bot jist have a 30 miniute trianing session?

Read out the label, show how to take the pin then give you all ago spraying a target on the flolr.

Done?

 

[Scania]

Could they bot jist have a 30 miniute trianing session?

Read out the label, show how to take the pin then give you all ago spraying a target on the flolr.

Done?

You'd think so, but apparently not.


Crap spelling btw.

 

[antijoke]

Sooooo fast forward a year or two, we are in new premises and our fire alarms have just gone off, nobody in the office knew what to do and just sat there eating lunch (we have a couple of new employees now so bigger than before) and a lad on work experience for half term, the boss just stuck his wifes coat over the alarm hoping it would go away, it wasn't until it wasn't until a couple of minutes later when I said "Would it not be wise to leave the building now?" that we actually left.

Now, my boss has once again zero clue of the procedures, we are in offices again with a landlord, we now have fire extinguishers readily available, but no other fire safety talks like assembly points have been given to us, where does this stand with regards laws? I'm not looking to take anyone to court, I just want to know what the things are that we should know in case of a fire, as clearly what just happened is unacceptable.

 

[Caged]

You should have designated fire marshals and perform drills. If you have extinguishers then selected people should be trained in their operation (which includes things like how to select an appropriate extinguisher).

 

[antijoke]

You should have designated fire marshals and perform drills. If you have extinguishers then selected people should be trained in their operation (which includes things like how to select an appropriate extinguisher).

I'm going to guess the occupants of the other offices and the shops give no *****, nobody knew what to do and it was nuts, one guy finished his cigarette and went back in, lol.

Am I right in my assumption that my boss should do a fire assessment of our office and everything else and be responsible for his staff/office?

 

[Caged]

Fire safety is the responsibility of your employer, whether they do it themselves or hire a third party.

 

[wolfie138]

Responsibility of the employer, not the landlord in commercial premises.

SHocking to not have enough fire extinguisher, fire warden, fire exit signs, emergency lighting, risk assessments, fire alarm and drill tests, designated assembly point, etc

As well as it's illegal and HSE would be down on them like a tonne of bricks and if there was a fire tomorrow and somebody died then your boss would go to jail for a very long time.

aside from that, it seems the only extinguisher they have is the wrong type!