Why the ballyheck do Brits not use winter tyres?

[geekman]

Neither do I. I don’t need either to take one set of wheels off a car and put another set on. All I need is a jack (one of theses usually comes with the car) and a wrench with the right size socket for the but (which also comes with the car). Ideally a torque wrench is a good option too, and you can always get a small bottle jack or trolley jack if you aren’t keen on using the jack that comes with the car.

Having two sets of rims is much cheaper in the long run because you’re not having to pay someone to swap tyres over every time. A set of “winter” rims is cheap too.

Edit: I see I wrote “tyre” in the first post in this sequence. I meant wheels with different tyres, which I presumed you realised from your previous post.

What I mean is that although I'm perfectly capable of changing wheels myself, I have to take it to a shop to change the tyres every so often, and in the process they often over tighten bolts / damage wheel nuts which then makes it difficult for me when I want to change a wheel myself to put on winter wheels / spare wheel etc. Probably wasn't very clear, sorry!

 

[NinetyOne]

It's not just the traction of the winter tyres that is helpful, in general winter tyres use a special rubber that stays soft in colder temperatures, whereas summer tyres will harden in the cold, losing grip. I use winter tyres through the entire colder months.

 

[hux]

Because Michelin PS4

 

[jpaul]

Interesting comment about UHP michelin tyres 'PSX' from multiple sites eg Kia Stinger

As the temperature of the compound nears freezing, the grip level of the tire begins to degrade. Michelin does not recommend using UHP Sport Summer tires when tire temperatures drop below 40°F (5°C) or on snow and ice.

At tire temperatures below 20°F (-7°C) Michelin UHP Sport Summer tires may develop surface cracks in the upper sidewall and tread area if flexed.

___________________________
ott

The "hypothesis" itself isn't compelling either but based on anecdotes. Also the evidence you yourself put forward did not put the UK or UK drivers in a poor light either but showed us to be doing better than peer nations of equivalent size and larger.
The fact of the matter is that there is no evidence that drivers in this country are either getting worse or that road safety has suffered.
Anecdotes and opinions at fine if presented as such but when you start to use them, effectively, as "evidence"/reason that the country (or UK drivers in general)is doing worse than others they fall down.

Based on road accidents per capita, for the UK we were only approximately the median nation, so does show us in poorer position than fatalities; the former, a statistic more likely to correlate with driving standard.
for the consideration of the OC jury

The number of defendants convicted for speed limit offences has increased noticeably, with convictions being 50% higher in 2016 (168,000) compared to 2011 (112,000)

(the study does not seem to acknowledge changed measurement technique)

 

[Superficial]

Based on road accidents per capita, for the UK we were only approximately the median nation, so does show us in poorer position than fatalities; the former, a statistic more likely to correlate with driving standard.

The sentence "so does show us in poorer position than fatalities" does not refute my point and I have said that we do better than our peers and that standard are not declining.

I have also said once and again, the data displays an enormous caveat: that different legal systems have different definitions of what constitutes an RTA

"The definition of an accident involving personal injury differs from country to country." - for us to agree with your point we'd need to agree that the comparative nation of France is full of better drivers but far more deaths proportionally LOL - see what I mean?

the same chart shows us as reporting far few accidents compared to Germany and Italy. It's a poor way to look at the issue.

This is precisely why the WHO (a far more accredited source and experienced source) concentrate of proportional deaths as the metric is essentially standardised by default.

for the consideration of the OC jury

And what is it that you think that proves?

The quote "The number of defendants convicted for speed limit offences has increased noticeably, with convictions being 50% higher in 2016 (168,000) compared to 2011 (112,000)"

could easily be explained by the enormous investment in speed cameras which bring in massive revenue btw

 

[Housey]

You like statistics I'm guessing, but you live in London so I also suspect you drive very little on long journeys across the country and therefore only have a perspective formed form data.

Correct?

 

[Superficial]

You like statistics I'm guessing, but you live in London so I also suspect you drive very little on long journeys across the country and therefore only have a perspective formed form data.

Correct?

I don't care about anecdotes and have no time for people that, essentially and desperately, need to believe things are getting worse and are worse than comparative nations when there is no real frame of reference or evidence for such a pov.

people whom spend far more time on the roads will be jaded...particularly if they spend most of their working lives on the road.

The issue is not how "bad" things are but actually how we compare in terms of safety to the rest of the world and we do very well. NOT the same as saying we are perfect as I have said.

 

[Housey]

I don't care about anecdotes and have no time for people that, essentially and desperately, need to believe things are getting worse and are worse than comparative nations when there is no real frame of reference or evidence for such a pov.

people whom spend far more time on the roads will be jaded...particularly if they spend most of their working lives on the road.

The issue is not how "bad" things are but actually how we compare in terms of safety to the rest of the world and we do very well. NOT the same as saying we are perfect as I have said.

And to my question?

 

[Superficial]

And to my question?

Your question essentially invites an onlooker to pretend that anecdotes mean more than hard data so your question is loaded.

Never the less the answer is both. Today your synopsis is correct but for 10 years prior to 2013 my business was installing It infrastructure around the country and I spend a lot of time on the road.

 

[Housey]

Your question essentially invites an onlooker to pretend that anecdotes mean more than hard data so your question is loaded.

Never the less the answer is both. Today your synopsis is correct but for 10 years prior to 2013 my business was installing It infrastructure around the country and I spend a lot of time on the road.

You spend a lot of time telling us what annoys you, what you don't like about people, what you feel holds little or no value. You also seem to approach each response with a predisposition of what the person is thinking or, in the case here, that I am seeking to lay a trap. I simply wanted to establish if you were a 21 year old with no driving licence, or had actually driven on a road so had a more rounded perspective over and above some statistics which in itself as massive area for discussion. Lies and damn lies etc.

I am not actually supporting the view you seek to refute as I have not even considered it but I am suggesting that simply dismissing the experience of people is shortsighted. Anecdotes are one thing and I agree facts need to be looked at in a much broader view but statistics also are just an interpretation made at the time based on often different variables. My point is don't be so dismissive of people who have lived and breathed stuff for they often form the basis of your statistics.

 

[Superficial]

You spend a lot of time telling us what annoys you, what you don't like about people, what you feel holds little or no value. You also seem to approach each response with a predisposition of what the person is thinking or, in the case here, that I am seeking to lay a trap. I simply wanted to establish if you were a 21 year old with no driving licence, or had actually driven on a road so had a more rounded perspective over and above some statistics which in itself as massive area for discussion. Lies and damn lies etc.

I am not actually supporting the view you seek to refute as I have not even considered it but I am suggesting that simply dismissing the experience of people is shortsighted. Anecdotes are one thing and I agree facts need to be looked at in a much broader view but statistics also are just an interpretation made at the time based on often different variables. My point is don't be so dismissive of people who have lived and breathed stuff for they often form the basis of your statistics.

Listen I'm not interested I dismissing points of view - just points of view that present themselves as fact. In fact I have already said this in my posts.

I actually have spend far more time chastising people that out rightly dismiss all UK drivers as "cretins" - which I think it utterly childish and pathetic.

 

[Housey]

/

Listen I'm not interested I dismissing points of view - just points of view that present themselves as fact. In fact I have already said this in my posts.

I actually have spend far more time chastising people that out rightly dismiss all UK drivers as "cretins" - which I think it utterly childish and pathetic.

I think the debate needs to separate accidents from driving standards for they are 2 discussions. I have been driving for over 30 years and in that time I have seen a massive growth in two things. Traffic volume and car safety/systems to help prevent incident, but those are metrics which apply across the world in developed nations. I have also driven extensively abroad so can also speak about what I have seen in terms of driving standards.

If I drive on a toll road in France/Italy or an Autobahn in Germany I see a level of lane control that simply does not exist in this country. I can be presented with any metric you may seek to present to refute this, but this is a statement of fact not conjecture or anecdote for I have seen it many times, experience it many times and it is consistent as others in this forum have said and will comment on as well. Now that doesn't mean anything as far as danger or incident in the main but it does lead you to conclude the average British motorists does not view their own lane control as something of an issue. For me that is a discussion on standards and it has got worse but that is because volumes have increased, cars perform better and people have more distractions.

I do not agree all drivers are cretins, that is just rubbish but many people in cars today see driving as the 4th or 5th most important things they are doing at that time. That creates frustration for people who see it as the most important thing they are doing...most of the time. Cars are safer today, massively so than 30 years ago but I do think the way people drive cars today has changed and their attention, focus on driving has got worse and this does not mean they crash more, just they pay less attention and drive worse and therefore make driving today a hell of a lot more frustrating and frankly annoying.

 

[Superficial]

/


I think the debate needs to separate accidents from driving standards for they are 2 discussions.

Possibly but I don't think we'd have an easy time of it - I don't think the data exists and we'd just end up...well where we are with people offering their opinion. Which is fine but would not lead to any real conclusions in my view.

I have been driving for over 30 years and in that time I have seen a massive growth in two things. Traffic volume and car safety/systems to help prevent incident, but those are metrics which apply across the world in developed nations. I have also driven extensively abroad so can also speak about what I have seen in terms of driving standards.

Yes you can and I have never said any different...

If I drive on a toll road in France/Italy or an Autobahn in Germany I see a level of lane control that simply does not exist in this country. I can be presented with any metric you may seek to present to refute this, but this is a statement of fact not conjecture or anecdote for I have seen it many times, experience it many times and it is consistent as others in this forum have said and will comment on as well. Now that doesn't mean anything as far as danger or incident in the main but it does lead you to conclude the average British motorists does not view their own lane control as something of an issue. For me that is a discussion on standards and it has got worse but that is because volumes have increased, cars perform better and people have more distractions.

I'll accept that it's a statement of your experience but not a fact. That is not the same as dismissing your opinion.

Think of it from my perspective - why should someone that uses roads a 'normal' amount just decide to accept an individuals assessment without supporting facts. Again I'm happy to accept that that is your opinion but not much more as that is not really my experience nor do I truly believe the grass is greener because that is not really what the objective evidence shows.

Don't forget I am NOT presenting UK drivers as saints or saying accidents and recklessness don't occur - just that we are, at the very least, in keeping with other comparative nations. Of course many UK drivers are irresponsible but so are people from other nations.

I do not agree all drivers are cretins, that is just rubbish but many people in cars today see driving as the 4th or 5th most important things they are doing at that time. That creates frustration for people who see it as the most important thing they are doing...most of the time. Cars are safer today, massively so than 30 years ago but I do think the way people drive cars today has changed and their attention, focus on driving has got worse and this does not mean they crash more, just they pay less attention and drive worse.

Well ok but those same cars exist on comparative countries also to comparison is still fair really.

 

[adam cool dude]

Thought I would try a cheeky shortcut as the A16 was a standstill. Half a mile down the back roads and there was a snow drift a good twelve inches deep. Had to reverse back out!

Maybe I should take the GT-Four to work tomorrow and see how good the AD08r's are in the snow. It's ironic that my most capable snow car has tyres on it that are literally hopeless in this snow!

 

[shauncr91]

2nd year on AD08R's (6th year on Summer/Track tyres) and I still haven't been killed to death.

 

[muon]

Was just driving outside. With little to no traffic, settled snow on most roads and was okay with summer tyres. I bet I drive a lot more safely in these conditions as I drive with such large margins.

Roads with lots of settled snow (untreated), you aren't doing above 20mph anyway.

 

[Nasher]

2nd year on AD08R's (6th year on Summer/Track tyres) and I still haven't been killed to death.

How do you know? This could be the afterlife.

 

[jpaul]

and I still haven't been killed to death.

Lemmy won't like your misquote

And what is it that you think that proves?
The quote "The number of defendants convicted for speed limit offences has increased noticeably, with convictions being 50% higher in 2016 (168,000) compared to 2011 (112,000)"
could easily be explained by the enormous investment in speed cameras which bring in massive revenue btw

what hard data would be satisfactory ? - if motoring offences have increased, and, as I predicated, investment has not increased (driving on the roads and observing police budgets would suggest not) then UK standard is deterioriating ... this is objective evidence
maybe people are just ignoring the law, not deterred by the punishment , but that seems unlikely
(I leave it as an exercise for the reader to establish lack of comparative increases in offences abroad)

I'll accept that it's a statement of your experience but not a fact.

A statistically significant number of personal testaments would contribute to any formal scientific study

 

[atpbx]

2nd year on AD08R's (6th year on Summer/Track tyres) and I still haven't been killed to death.

I dont know what my Festa ST has on it at the moment as I havent looked.
But I bought it the last week of November so have been driving it exclusively in icy, wet, snowy conditions since ive had it and its not killed me yet either.

I did have a bit of wheel spin under boost this morning, but it didnt result in me exploding in a fireball and being stranded on the side of the road, so all is well.

 

[Superficial]

what hard data would be satisfactory ? - if motoring offences have increased, and, as I predicated, investment has not increased (driving on the roads and observing police budgets would suggest not) then UK standard is deterioriating ... this is objective evidence
maybe people are just ignoring the law, not deterred by the punishment , but that seems unlikely
(I leave it as an exercise for the reader to establish lack of comparative increases in offences abroad)

If this is the only data available then the evidence/data is lacking to support your view.

You're exaggerating the quality of the evidence out of desperation - I have wholly refuted your dataset using reasoned logic and now you are reduced to picking out speeding tickets as a measure of how standards have decreased despite me already having countered that with a very well known reason for speeding offences being recorded more (not necessarily offences increasing). the speed camera network in Britain has increased exponentially during that time period along with the quality of the cameras and lenses not least because of the amount of revenue to be gained.

A statistically significant number of personal testaments would contribute to any formal scientific study

And we don't have that and even if we did those statements alone would not contradict hard data but, at best, be taken into consideration.