Sexual assault?

izzop said:
Creepy, Yes. Warrants being put on the sex offenders register, No.
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I think it warrants something legal. It's a form of assault.

I think the underlying problem is that there's not enough acknowledgement of degree (and some explicit denial that there is any such thing). If someone is on the sex offenders register, not much distinction is made regarding why. In general, "sex offender" is interpreted as "rapist or child abuser". Also, "sexual assault" is going to generally be interpreted as something far more extreme, probably rape if the assaulter is in a lower status group than the victim (e.g. man on woman or woman on child). We're all conditioned to believe everything is the worst possible example and there's constant pressure to increase the scope ever further (e.g. "microaggressions").
 
Amazed and disappointed to see so many Ocuk members supporting this behavior - it's wrong and can never be excused or condoned to any degree. Anyone who wants to discuss the 'grey areas' in sexual assault should really find other groups more amenable to their tastes - Ocuk is not it.
 
I'm absolutely disgusted that most of the the replies in this thread are almost mocking of the victim. Such as ......The woman needs to wind her neck in? Really? You'd say that to your partner if someone came and did that to her and she wanted to go to the police??

100% he should be on the sex offenders register. No 'right' thinking man would do something like this. He clearly has issues. A moment of madness? My arse.

Shame on every single one of you making light of this incident. I hope none of you have partners who ever have to experience something like this.

edit - I realise now the 'wind her neck in' was a joke that totally went over my head! :( apologies to the poster.
 
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Werewolf said:
Why should the woman have to resort to violence?
Also what is the woman is scared of what the man will do if they slap him?

I wouldn't be surprised is there is more that has been reported at the moment, as I suspect someone doesn't do something like this in public as their first "mistake".
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As a side note here and as I recall, everyone seemed to be absolutely fine with the possibility that women might have to resort to violence to protect themselves when all the self-defense courses for them were being run throughout the 80s and 90s across the country. I knew plenty of women who carried sprays and/or alarms with them too and some a lot more recent than those times. Now, while it may well have been a self empowering phase at the time and had ran it's course for the most part with most women, it did make me wonder what the police would make of it these days if for example she had sprayed mace in his eyes and then gave him a good kicking in light of this. Would they consider that an acceptable and measured response after being kissed three times, even if she said she felt violated and threatened at the time?


PS I posted the "The woman needs to wind her neck in?" comment. It was a joke along the lines of, if she wounded her neck in then it wouldn't have got kissed. Apologies for the GD throw away one liner.
 
Thekwango said:
I'm absolutely disgusted that most of the the replies in this thread are almost mocking of the victim. Such as ......The woman needs to wind her neck in? Really? You'd say that to your partner if someone came and did that to her and she wanted to go to the police??

100% he should be on the sex offenders register. No 'right' thinking man would do something like this. He clearly has issues. A moment of madness? My arse.

Shame on every single one of you making light of this incident. I hope none of you have partners who ever have to experience something like this.
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I've experienced something like that. Arguably worse - they grabbed my genitals for a grope. I wouldn't want them put on the sex offender's registry for that even if it was possible because I'm sure there was no malicious intent and so I would consider such an extreme step to be excessive.
 
Mr Blonde said:
As a side note here and as I recall, everyone seemed to be absolutely fine with the possibility that women might have to resort to violence to protect themselves when all the self-defense courses for them were being run throughout the 80s and 90s across the country. I knew plenty of women who carried sprays and/or alarms with them too and some a lot more recent than those times. Now, while it may well have been a self empowering phase at the time and had ran it's course for the most part with most women, it did make me wonder what the police would make of it these days if for example she had sprayed mace in his eyes and then gave him a good kicking in light of this. Would they consider that an acceptable and measured response after being kissed three times, even if she said she felt violated and threatened at the time?


PS I posted the "The woman needs to wind her neck in?" comment. It was a joke along the lines of, if she wounded her neck in then it wouldn't have got kissed. Apologies for the GD throw away one liner.
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Apologies, in light of the general attitude of the other posts the joke passed me by. I get it now though :p
 
Thekwango said:
You'd say that to your partner if someone came and did that to her and she wanted to go to the police??
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I think that is a good barometer tbh.. would you be happy if someone did it to your wife/girlfriend in front of you... if not then it probably isn't OK. I'm guessing most people would be ok with a hug/kiss on the cheek... but multiple kisses including the neck etc.. very dubious and if unwanted then yeah it could easily be sexual assault.
 
Why is the fact that he's never had a parking ticket relevant? Although, the Daily Mail appear to have breached their own editorial guidelines - there's no indication at all of the house value of the victim or defendant.
 
Angilion said:
I've experienced something like that. Arguably worse - they grabbed my genitals for a grope. I wouldn't want them put on the sex offender's registry for that even if it was possible because I'm sure there was no malicious intent and so I would consider such an extreme step to be excessive.
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Well not reporting the assault is up to you, most men (and women) in similar situations (serving rowdy same sex groups) don't either - but if you did you would not have a choice over it being recorded in the register or not - that's just the law.

I wonder though how you would feel if you were not at work, but rather stood looking at your roof, talking to a neighbour, when he grabs hold of you from behind and starts kissing your neck? (I say he, because most heterosexual men see any advance from a woman as an opportunity, unwanted or not we would weigh up the prospect - we can though be fairly sure most heterosexual men see an advance from another man as 100% unwanted).
 
Dave M said:
Well not reporting the assault is up to you, most men (and women) in similar situations (serving rowdy same sex groups) don't either - but if you did you would not have a choice over it being recorded in the register or not - that's just the law.

I wonder though how you would feel if you were not at work, but rather stood looking at your roof, talking to a neighbour, when he grabs hold of you from behind and starts kissing your neck? (I say he, because most heterosexual men see any advance from a woman as an opportunity, unwanted or not we would weigh up the prospect - we can though be fairly sure most heterosexual men see an advance from another man as 100% unwanted).
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I'm bisexual, so that distinction doesn't apply to me. Not that it should apply anyway - a person's sex shouldn't matter in this context.

Another reason why I didn't report it is people who think that what's a sexual assault if a man does it to a woman is an opportunity or a prospect for the victim when a woman does it to a man. Just a few posts up, you strongly criticised people for far less unpleasant posts than that.

On the plus side, I'm sure there isn't a wasp nest on my roof. Also, the weather recently gave me a free roof check - it stood up to the extreme wind, snow and heavy rain so it's probably OK.
 
Seems about right to me.
Obviously a lot more to this than the article says.follows the law and even the ruling came with a well thought out message.
What does him being the ex director of a waterskiing club or careful parker have to do with his uncontrollable, unwanted sexual urges?
 
peterwalkley said:
My one time of Jury service was a sexual assault case about 20 years ago. The guidance we were given then was the three 'B's: Bum, boobs and between the legs for it to count as a sexual assault. On that (presumably out of date ?) definition its not sexual assault - or there is a lot more to it than described in the article. Yes he screwed up and should not have made the pass, but a registered sex offender for what is described does seem like overkill to me.
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In some parts of the united states, if you get caught urinating on a tree in the park, you are a sex offender. I'm not sure whether that's more insane than the OP but needless to say society is going to hell in a handbasket. And yes, hell will be a highly politically correct place.
 
Dave M said:
Amazed and disappointed to see so many Ocuk members supporting this behavior - it's wrong and can never be excused or condoned to any degree. Anyone who wants to discuss the 'grey areas' in sexual assault should really find other groups more amenable to their tastes - Ocuk is not it.
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The behaviour is creepy and inappropriate, but the punishment is excessive and quite frankly absurd, whatever happened to police caution and a small fine or apology to the "Victim"?

We live in an insane world run by wet idiots, justice this time seems to be run by a women who couldn't handle life and the courts bent over backwards to indulge her. It's the wrong move in my opinon
 
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Thekwango said:
I'm absolutely disgusted that most of the the replies in this thread are almost mocking of the victim. Such as ......The woman needs to wind her neck in? Really? You'd say that to your partner if someone came and did that to her and she wanted to go to the police??

100% he should be on the sex offenders register. No 'right' thinking man would do something like this. He clearly has issues. A moment of madness? My arse.

Shame on every single one of you making light of this incident. I hope none of you have partners who ever have to experience something like this.
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I agree with your post mostly but you clearly missed the joke in the “Wind her neck in” one. Hint: he kissed her on the neck.
 
Kenai said:
Given the obvious tone of the article and the way the headline immediately tries to play down the incident as a peck on the shoulder, I suspect the rest of the article somewhat understates the events.

It takes a few seconds to kiss someone in three different places so if she's now in counselling I'd be wholly unsurprised to find he was attempting to restrain her, otherwise it'd have been easy to just move away from him. Other articles refer to him putting his arm round her from behind, which sounds far more 'grabby' and much less 'friendly arm around a shoulder'
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You're doing what you're accusing the article of doing, adjusting what's been said to fit a narrative of what you think might have happened. You're playing it up. I'm not saying the article is correct, but surely you see the hypocrisy there?

If the article is true it's part of a wider issue whereby things as menial as unwanted advances are being treated as sexual harassment or even abuse.

People are becoming far more fragile and delicate these days, and there always seems to be someone looking to be a victim.

I can't imagine how delicate someone must be if they need councilling after this. There needs to boundaries and this guy clearly has none, but what happened to a firm "leave me the hell alone, I'm not interested"?

There is current media outrage over people touching other people's knees, and public apologies being made (Michael Fallon) when the apparent "victim" is completely fine and considers the "incident" to be over.

People are trying to make an issue of Adam Sandler touching a woman's knee during the Graham Norton show, and trying to add predatory context to it.

I get it, it's annoying, but I don't see why it doesn't end at that. My.mum does similar things when she's talking to me, she'll subconsciously prod me on the leg or arm as she's telling me a story, it winds me up but that's it really.

In a slightly different topic, retroactive retraction of concent seems to actually be coming a thing.
 
spoffle said:
You're doing what you're accusing the article of doing, adjusting what's been said to fit a narrative of what you think might have happened. You're playing it up. I'm not saying the article is correct, but surely you see the hypocrisy there?
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I'm not trying to fit a narrative, I'm offering my opinion on why a story getting reported as if it was very minor might have resulted in an apparently harsh sentence, especially so given the difference in wording when you read the same story on local news outlets.

Putting your arm around someone from behind and managing to keep them there long enough to kiss their shoulder, neck and head isn't just a friendly arm around the shoulders as was being implied.
 
Dave M said:
Amazed and disappointed to see so many Ocuk members supporting this behavior - it's wrong and can never be excused or condoned to any degree. Anyone who wants to discuss the 'grey areas' in sexual assault should really find other groups more amenable to their tastes - Ocuk is not it.
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I'm clearly reading the wrong article, friend kisses woman on shoulders and back of head is the one I read... - what details am I missing? that's barely sexual, it warrants a "WTF are you doing, get away from me".

Though I am aware papers change to details to make a story, they might have missed out the bit where it pinned her to the wall and did the kissing, or whispered your my "female dog" or it was the second time he did it after she previously called the police.

I think the woman has issues weather its a previous "incident" or just being mental
 
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