I don't think there is anything to suggest there are any other victims (of crimes) yet. So actually, that is a picture of the victim, he's also being held (having been arrested) but has not been charged.
78 year old pensioner arrested for for stabbing burglar (burglar later died in hospital)
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I don't think there is anything to suggest there are any other victims (of crimes) yet. So actually, that is a picture of the victim, he's also being held (having been arrested) but has not been charged.
Associate
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Hey hey hey, a Guinness drinker - thus not only a burglar killing legend but a total dude as well.
Assuming he is telling truth are we? Do you know he didn't invite them in then later make it look like a burglary?
Sure, he probably didn't. The only fact we/the police know is that someone has died, presumably with knife wounds on his person.
That's it. So to ensure due diligence and a proper investigation, the guy was arrested and held for questioning.
Proper procedure.
Sure, he probably didn't. The only fact we/the police know is that someone has died, presumably with knife wounds on his person.
That's it. So to ensure due diligence and a proper investigation, the guy was arrested and held for questioning.
Proper procedure.
Soldato
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What the ****? Why was my post deleted?
Seems like they are treating him as guilty until proven innocent. If it appears to be self defense (it clearly was), why is he being arrested before they have evidence to say otherwise?
People will be seeing this and thinking **** it, if I end up stabbing a burglar I'm just going to put him under a patio and tell no one. After all, does a burglar tell someone where they are going?
People will be seeing this and thinking **** it, if I end up stabbing a burglar I'm just going to put him under a patio and tell no one. After all, does a burglar tell someone where they are going?
Just because it isn't being reported in public yet, doesn't mean they don't have reasoning/evidence to cause them to arrest him rather than just let him go with zero investigation after killing someone.
Arresting people doesn't mean they are presumed guilty either, if you use that logic, you'd not be able to arrest people until after court cases proved them guilty.
Arresting people doesn't mean they are presumed guilty either, if you use that logic, you'd not be able to arrest people until after court cases proved them guilty.
Because it was nonsense and off topic.
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I would be very surprised if anyone wasn't arrested. When you turn up on scene you don't know what has happened. With someone in a critical condition you need to secure and preserve evidence at the scene including suspects. In that sort of situation, you're probably going to arrest before you even get a first account. At the point where he's been arrested you then can't talk about the offence until he's been booked into custody. You simply don't have the opportunity to work out if it was self defence at that point, especially if someone is in a rather emotional state.
There's usually going to be the need to arrest as you don't know the intentions and you have an immediate obligation to prevent any further harm to anyone else. When you've got a lot going on, you aren't going to be able to get even an initial account. If I were first on scene, it would be to secure and arrest suspects (for my safety if nothing else), then render first aid, then protect the scene, in that order. I wouldn't be even looking if there was a statutory defence, that'll be well down the line in custody, in fact, I'd probably would keep questions to a minimum. The Major Crime Team would be the ones to get a proper account in custody when we know what the deal is.
Could be for a variety of reasons, but yes, because he died could be a reason to further arrest. I'm wary of reporting on this, as most press don't understand police procedure, so use technical words which they don't fully understand.
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Course he had to be arrested, i would be shocked if he was not - its not some conspiracy or plod being asses its proper procedure.
He will be out drinking Guinness by the weekend...prob.
He will be out drinking Guinness by the weekend...prob.
To preserve the evidence and make sure that if it does swing the other way anything he has said is usable in court.
Remember Kennith Noye who used the self defence argument when he killed a surveillance officer on the edge of his property (successfully) then tried it again when he knifed a motorist to death? (he's a good example of how the juries are likely to believe self defence when on your own property no matter who is killed).
The Police don't know what has gone on, they know the end result (someone dead of a stab wound) but they would be negligent to not act in a mannter that meant evidence was usable if it turns out that the dead guy had been invited over for a cup of tea and was murdered.
From what has been released to the public it looks pretty much certain to be self defence, but the police are not meant to just wave away a dead body and say "the guy holding the bloody knife said it was self defence", they're meant to investigate and keep all the options open until they know whether a murder charge will be brought.
@Burnsy2023 thanks for taking the time to respond, that's interesting. I do feel pretty bad for the guy given his age and what has seemingly happened to him, I hope, if there aren't any significant bits missing from the reporting, that he's released without charge if the arrest(and/or re-arrest for murder) itself isn't necessarily informative as to what the police might believe/whether they're looking to charge him etc...
In regards to "reasonable force" when defending ones home, I have no idea how my mind/body will would react in this circumstance.
Having no training at all in dealing with home intrusion, if it were to happen it would all come down to what the adrenaline does to me. It's so harsh to punish people for something not brought on by themselves if they do end up killing someone. I don't think carrying out a burglary should mean you should face death, but you put yourself in danger the same way you would farting about on a motorway/rail track etc.
People are completely unpredictable when put in a position of fear. I can never see how it would be murder (the intent side) unless you capture them, calm down and then decide to execute them in an act of revenge.
Having no training at all in dealing with home intrusion, if it were to happen it would all come down to what the adrenaline does to me. It's so harsh to punish people for something not brought on by themselves if they do end up killing someone. I don't think carrying out a burglary should mean you should face death, but you put yourself in danger the same way you would farting about on a motorway/rail track etc.
People are completely unpredictable when put in a position of fear. I can never see how it would be murder (the intent side) unless you capture them, calm down and then decide to execute them in an act of revenge.
So this alleged burglar is guilty until proven innocent, then? Has it been proven he was, in fact, a burglar?
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Clearly and sadly the best course of a action to take in a case like this is to not call the police.
If they do come knocking, use the crook standard 'no comment' defence.
Prints on the blade would include the accomplices with a potential witness who saw a man in a van put his hand near some guy sleeping in the street and when he removed his hand if had a knife in it and the guy was bleeding.
Open and shut case.
Instead the old guy is probably (and rightly) self righteous saying it was his right to defend against a burglar etc which will probably end up convicting himself.
If they do come knocking, use the crook standard 'no comment' defence.
Prints on the blade would include the accomplices with a potential witness who saw a man in a van put his hand near some guy sleeping in the street and when he removed his hand if had a knife in it and the guy was bleeding.
Open and shut case.
Instead the old guy is probably (and rightly) self righteous saying it was his right to defend against a burglar etc which will probably end up convicting himself.
this makes no sense, he can hardly be arrested for gbh when he died, re-arrest is essential.
I would have expected him to be arrested as a matter of procedure, especially when the person died.
I remember a few years ago, didn't a home owner shoot and kill an intruder, got arrested but was later released as it wasn't in the public interest?
Also a few years ago, prompted by the incident I mentioned, wasn't the government talking about strengthening the law when it came to self defense in the home? I wonder if any of that came in to actual law.
I would be very surprised if the case isn't dropped. I know if all what happened in that newspaper report is truthful then 99% of people would do the same. I can't see how a jury could convict a person for doing that.
The only bad thing about this is the guys age. Living you're life to 78 years old and these two intruders brought this incident in to his house, literally. I hope this whole situation is dealt with swiftly.
I remember a few years ago, didn't a home owner shoot and kill an intruder, got arrested but was later released as it wasn't in the public interest?
Also a few years ago, prompted by the incident I mentioned, wasn't the government talking about strengthening the law when it came to self defense in the home? I wonder if any of that came in to actual law.
I would be very surprised if the case isn't dropped. I know if all what happened in that newspaper report is truthful then 99% of people would do the same. I can't see how a jury could convict a person for doing that.
The only bad thing about this is the guys age. Living you're life to 78 years old and these two intruders brought this incident in to his house, literally. I hope this whole situation is dealt with swiftly.
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I know the police are only doing what preceedure dictates, but having had grandparents with dementia my overwhelming thought is I hope his wife is getting the support she needs, and that the guy is being treated with a little bit of respect. He has done what I feel most people would hope they could do if ever in a simular situation, at any age! And news sites using a picture of him with a shotgun is not helpful.
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