How can councils justify this?

ethan said:
I don't know what New Orleans looks like but I bet the Cultural Quarter doesn't look anything like it lol.
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Absolutely @Bear would tell you that they should not holiday buy should look at pictures.

I've not heard about that Malevolence given I have the same council as you. They can't waste money quick enough. But then the proles round here vote for some terrible people... Pervez for one!
 
FortuitousFluke said:
And that is exactly the kind of thing that will land you in hot water unless there is a firm justification for doing it. It used to really wind me up when I heard about cases like this but that was really because the team I worked in was so good. The next job I had after that opened my eyes to the real problems that a lot of Councils have in terms of public procurement.
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I might add that I had access to the letter of disqualification and was in direct correspondence plus friends to a couple of businesses lacking the requirement who had not been disqualified. If I give names it would disadvantage them. Its an abuse of process that needs reporting tbh but not to anybody in the council.
 
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ethan said:
I might add that I had access to the letter of disqualification and was in direct correspondence plus friends to a couple of businesses lacking the requirement who had not been disqualified. If I give names it would disadvantage them. Its an abuse of process that needs reporting tbh.
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It's difficult for me to comment without more details to be honest, there are reasons why one bidder might be disqualified while another bidder seemingly in the same situation is approved but like I said I'd need to dig into it to work out whether that was the case.

What I will say is that in my time working in public sector procurement I've never encountered willful corruption. I've encountered a shed load of incompetence and some real difficulties brought about by well meaning or political meddling but never corruption. I've heard anecdotal stuff about what happened 30 years ago but I've not seen anything myself that really concerned me.

I've seen some shoddy contracts put together due to a lack of understanding of the service, a blind drive to cut costs or just a lack of experience/intelligence though.
 
What I will say is that in my time working in public sector procurement I've never encountered willful corruption. I've encountered a shed load of incompetence and some real difficulties brought about by well meaning or political meddling but never corruption. I've heard anecdotal stuff about what happened 30 years ago but I've not seen anything myself that really concerned me.

I've seen some shoddy contracts put together due to a lack of understanding of the service, a blind drive to cut costs or just a lack of experience/intelligence though.
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Ive just received a text from one of the directors of the companies I was referring, to accompany them as a witness to a politician because I was privy to the disqualification and a number of threatening phone call recordings from those that disqualified the bid.
 
ethan said:
Ive just received a text from one of the directors of the companies I was referring, to accompany them as a witness to a politician because I was privy to the disqualification and a number of threatening phone call recordings from those that disqualified the bid.
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That's pretty extreme. If they've got the recordings and proof of the double standards they're on good ground to legally challenge the decision. I can honestly say i've never seen anything close to the behaviour you're describing, but there are a lot of public sector organisations with a lot of commissioners so I'm sure there are a few bad eggs out there.
 
It would be discriminatory to assume he'll go bankrupt half way through or bodge it on the cheap, welcome to the 21st century where common sense has died and you have to put facts and experience aside and just assume everything will be hunky dory.
 
AndyT said:
Unfortunately, the people who run councils are not very talented or experienced and they have zero accountability. [SNIP]
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I assume that you are talking about your experience in Aix-en-Provence?

Fortunately in the UK, Councillors are elected from time to time. The problem here is that most people simply can't be bothered to do anything other than whinge from the comfort of their armchairs whilst transfixed by some soap opera on their 60" TV.

It has always puzzled me that people bitch interminably about their councils, their Councillors and their MPs but simply can't work up the energy to do anything positive - perhaps they are too exhausted after working in the private sector? Probably not, they are just lazy and stupid.
 
Maundie said:
So we pressure councils to save money and then are surprised when they choose the cheapest tender.

Sounds about right.
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No, people pressure Councils not to waste money and the tender in the OP is clearly going to do just that.

To be fair our local council built a leisure centre in an area named after a coal mine and seemed surprised to find holes in the ground that saw the project cost more and take longer. If only there was a way for them to have known!
 
TheOracle said:
and yet they have enough money to go to New Orleans?
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So for one council you managed to find a case of £250k spent on something you disagree with and so councils must be well funded?

Nice logic.

Also not all money councils receive can be spent on anything they want.

Next you'll be pointing to the salaries senior managers earn.
 
muon said:
So for one council you managed to find a case of £250k spent on something you disagree with and so councils must be well funded?

Nice logic.

Also not all money councils receive can be spent on anything they want.

Next you'll be pointing to the salaries senior managers earn.
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With that council, you'll find it's more than one link/thing.
 
stockhausen said:
I assume that you are talking about your experience in Aix-en-Provence?

Fortunately in the UK, Councillors are elected from time to time. The problem here is that most people simply can't be bothered to do anything other than whinge from the comfort of their armchairs whilst transfixed by some soap opera on their 60" TV.

It has always puzzled me that people bitch interminably about their councils, their Councillors and their MPs but simply can't work up the energy to do anything positive - perhaps they are too exhausted after working in the private sector? Probably not, they are just lazy and stupid.
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No. UK.

Elected means nothing. Just means they sought election. Doesn’t mean they are capable, or fit, or qualified to do the job.

I’ve family working for councils, friends in councils. All freely admit it is a total clown show, but the hours are good, the pension is good and apart from the stress of being made redundant, it’s not a difficult life.
 
muon said:
So for one council you managed to find a case of £250k spent on something you disagree with and so councils must be well funded?

Nice logic.

Also not all money councils receive can be spent on anything they want.

Next you'll be pointing to the salaries senior managers earn.
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Who said all councils are well funded?
 
AndyT said:
Unfortunately, the people who run councils are not very talented or experienced and they have zero accountability. The good civil servants will generally work in central government or get sick of the atmosphere of mediocrity and leave to go to the private sector. It does not surprise me that a local council is completely clueless about commercial risk and awarding contracts. The worse alternative does not surprise me either - that they simply don't care that this contract is likely to go ****-up very quickly. My wife worked for a local council for a few years and left to go to the private sector. Incompetent, lazy, entitled, backstabbing were words she used regularly when describing her colleagues, particularly senior management. There seems to be no accountability whatsoever.
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My working life spans almost 40 years and its split almost 50 / 50 private sector / local government.
I've heard those terms aimed at people from both sectors and having been on both sides of the fence I can confirm that they apply to both.
It does seem that its one sector that applies the terms to the other and vice versa.
 
ubersonic said:
I have a friend who works in the council (not specifying which one obviously) and we were chatting over lunch and this came up lol. The council have a contract they put out every few years for servicing/maintaining all the air conditioning units in their properties (leisure centres, offices, schools, etc), and they have chosen to award it to the company that put in the lowest price (makes sense so far).

It turns out the company that has won this (major) contract is a man in a van who's been in business 10 months, has zero experience with contracts like this, and who's biggest AC job with the council thus far was a botched installation that had to be transferred to another company to fix. Then it gets good (lol), the price they put in is lower than it costs to do the contract (the council officers know how much this costs) which means the guy is either going to skip/bodge some of it or go bankrupt partway through the contract.

Yet despite all this the bean counters are giving themselves a nice pat on the back over the money they have saved (haha). I just don't understand how councils can justify this type of nonsense, it's not even incompetence as the officers know this is a mistake and going to end badly, they just can't avoid it due to rules/red tape.
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I am not surprised. And can point finger to my local council as the most obvious for cost cutting.
West Lindsey council. The moment you cross into it's area, even the "A" roads are just pressed (by cars) gravel. No tarmac is used except on the A631 west of Gainsborough. East of it and all way to A15 junction is just pressed gravel. Same story the other main road, the A159 where you can see the council border :P
Because on Scunthorpe side the road is nice and smooth tarmac, while the moment you cross to West Lindsey is just gravel deafening you even in the most quiet cars.
Same applies to snow which I do not remember having cleaned up the council roads the 11 years I live here.
 
I work frequently with public sector, and quite simply the waste, mis-management of personnel, equipment and purchasing is mind boggling.
I think I have met with 2 or 3 people with their heads screwed on, and they usually have their hands tied and are just hanging on till they have the experience to get to the private sector and get paid properly.
They need to pay more, be more ruthless with crap personnel and drive up standards.
Only then can the public sector make sense.
I have no doubt that simply sacking all the pay rise demanding, professionally mediocre management would enable them to hire half the number of driven people on a competitive salary from the private sector and the cost savings in prudent purchasing and forward-thinking would solve most budget issues.
The good people caught up in the system, and want out or are beaten down by the waves of complacency around them.
 
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