Something super is coming...

[StriderX]

I think it would be a bit soon for a 30x0 series wouldn't it?

And yes, I think that's exactly what they're doing, milking the architecture for all it's worth before a new design and process next year. It looks entirely like a way to torpedo the Navi launch by undercutting prices and beating performance points.

Which to me is a good thing - competition is supposed to give us better, cheaper stuff, right?

It's not cheaper though and it's better in a bad way because Nvidia could have offered it at that price before AMD did a single thing.

Anyone buying Nvidia is getting shafted, hard.

 

[Zernath]

It's not cheaper though and it's better in a bad way because Nvidia could have offered it at that price before AMD did a single thing.

Anyone buying Nvidia is getting shafted, hard.

I haven't seen a single price drop from Nvidia as a result of anything AMD has done recently. They just don't care, they know people will buy their products anyway, so why bother about the competition? If anything, they seem to be getting more expensive not less.

 

[Rroff]

Digital Foundry is one of the outfits most impressed by Ray Tracing.

Before the RTX cards came out they saw Remedy games demo a RayvTracing game scene that had not good performance and it was running on 4 x Titan V in a system that cost 10s of thousands and now that performance is done using just a single 2080ti/Titan RTX

And I’m hopefully that sooner rather than later Nvidia is able to implement a chiplet design where by it can have two dies on a gpu, where one of the dies just has RT and Tensor cores inside. Then we’d see another massive performance leap - probably to the point where rasterisation became the bottleneck again and not rayvtracing. One can only dream so much, but that dream is of a 3080ti with two dies, one with 5000 Cuda cores boosting up to 2500mhz and the other die fitted with 400RT cores and 2000Tensor Cores all on 7nm at 250w offering 4K 60hz to 100hz rayvtracing on Ultra

Playing around with custom maps in Quake 2 RTX I'm more and more excited to see what can be done with the next generation of cards and ray tracing - though my Pascal GPU gets hammered into oblivion the Turing cards can run a lot of these scenes at playable framerates and some of the lighting really is something in motion when you understand what is going on behind the scenes. I think people vastly underestimate the importance of what is going on here and hope AMD get in on the game in a big way to help push this forward.

Although it isn't perfect the denoiser nVidia are using is allowing a level of quality at real time to be attainable that is a very close approximation of a vastly higher ray count and that will only improve - especially the artefact issues due to the temporal nature of the algorithm will reduce with more advanced hardware and higher framerates.

 

[StriderX]

Playing around with custom maps in Quake 2 RTX I'm more and more excited to see what can be done with the next generation of cards and ray tracing - though my Pascal GPU gets hammered into oblivion the Turing cards can run a lot of these scenes at playable framerates and some of the lighting really is something in motion when you understand what is going on behind the scenes. I think people vastly underestimate the importance of what is going on here and hope AMD get in on the game in a big way to help push this forward.

Although it isn't perfect the denoiser nVidia are using is allowing a level of quality at real time to be attainable that is a very close approximation of a vastly higher ray count and that will only improve - especially the artefact issues due to the temporal nature of the algorithm will reduce with more advanced hardware and higher framerates.

But it's not the whole scene, i'd love to see how a 2080ti handles a modern (not a 20 year old game) scene with all four foundations of raytracing active.

That's the only serious comparison i can fathom comparing anything to, mishmashing bits and pieces that have been fine tuned into oblivion is not something people can compare to future games if they can achieve a full scene at some point. (I'm sure Nvidia will try though)

Though by then, Cloud gaming will have ruined the discrete market i'd hazard...

 

[Rroff]

But it's not the whole scene, i'd love to see how a 2080ti handles a modern (not a 20 year old game) scene with all four foundations of raytracing active.

That's the only serious comparison i can fathom comparing anything to, mishmashing bits and pieces that have been fine tuned into oblivion is not something people can compare to future games if they can achieve a full scene at some point. (I'm sure Nvidia will try though)

Though by then, Cloud gaming will have ruined the discrete market i'd hazard...

Sure Quake 2 doesn't have the complexity of a modern game but polygon count doesn't seem to unduly trouble the renderer and the materials are updated to be part of the system - although bounced and indirect light features are relatively tamed in the implementation which is a shame unlike the other implementations like BF V it does fully use the solution for all lighting, global illumination and reflections/caustics.

 

[Jimmy Weirdarms]

It's not cheaper though and it's better in a bad way

It'll be cheaper if they drop the prices, which they may, and it's either better or not, there's no good or bad here.

Nvidia could have offered it at that price before AMD did a single thing.

Why would they if there's no competition? They have development costs to recoup and shareholders to make happy, just like AMD.

Anyone buying Nvidia is getting shafted, hard.

More card for less money is a positive, whoever's side you've decided to be on.

 

[StriderX]

It'll be cheaper if they drop the prices, which they may, and it's either better or not, there's no good or bad here.



Why would they if there's no competition? They have development costs to recoup and shareholders to make happy, just like AMD.



More card for less money is a positive, whoever's side you've decided to be on.

The consumer is what drives prices not shareholders, if the consumers didn't buy it at such inflated prices (which they are) going by the cut for slightly more power, there wouldn't even be a discussion on this.

The fact is that AMD isn't actually competing (especially at that silly price), Navi is a waste of time, so why is Nvidia bothering?

It may also be good in the short term, but long term it's clear that enthusiasts will eat pretty much any price after a period of time, i bet they're hoping cloud gaming to amplify people's idealism on having a discrete PC to play on. Frankly i dont care if Nvidia is the best, long term it means i'll eventually get shafted if i support their strategy.

Maybe AMD will pick out a magical 1000mm^2 beast that beats Nvidia by stupid%, but it's clear enough that they've given up the high end, though i do see them potentially releasing a dual core GPU at some point for brownie points. The consumer is the consumers worst enemy by far, though i guess it's understandable in a duopoly like this.

 

[Sabbath]

Mention this other day. Prices all gone up, including for example the Zotac RTX2080 extreme edition jumping back up to £900 from under £700. Having said that, its dropped back down to sub £700 again (up and down by £200 over last few days, odd!), this seems arguably the best priced RTX2080 for the price/performance imo at present.

I noticed the EVGA RTX2080ti Kingpin edition has dropped £90 so far as no one has bought one yet (pretty sure they only had 6 in stock when they received them...still have 6). You would be crazy to buy if there is a SUPER edition released at a better price.

I just had a look on the Nvidia site shop and out of the retailers I have been watching, it looks like they are the only ones who haven't raised the prices on the particular cards I looked at. I think a console from a bricks and mortar shop is where I am heading.

 

[Grim5]

Sure Quake 2 doesn't have the complexity of a modern game but polygon count doesn't seem to unduly trouble the renderer and the materials are updated to be part of the system - although bounced and indirect light features are relatively tamed in the implementation which is a shame unlike the other implementations like BF V it does fully use the solution for all lighting, global illumination and reflections/caustics.

I believe you are correct. Adding higher quality textures etc should have no further impact on ray tracing - the performance hit comes from the rasterisation part.

I just had a look on the Nvidia site shop and out of the retailers I have been watching, it looks like they are the only ones who haven't raised the prices on the particular cards I looked at. I think a console from a bricks and mortar shop is where I am heading.

I can't remember where, but I saw a store post some sales numbers for various models and the Titan RTX (roughly similiar price to the Kingpin) was about 1 or 2 sold for every 100 x 2080ti's sold.

So OC UK has likely sold very few Kingpins (I'd guess 2 or less units simple because it's price too closely to the Titan RTX - I'd rather get the Titan)

 

[DELETED_195422]

With Ray Tracing maybe we'll get back to the times when there was a night and day difference between PC and console games. PC is where the tech is going to advance the most, probably at a rapid rate. Next gen consoles will have an APU and will have no where near the grunt required to do ray tracing any justice.

What needs to change is the price to get access to the tech. Currently that isn't possible at the moment with only a small minority willing to spend 4 figures on one component. But hopefully this will change over the years once AMD/Intel get on in the game and drive the competition that the GPU market desperately needs just now.

 

[Poneros]

With Ray Tracing maybe we'll get back to the times when there was a night and day difference between PC and console games. PC is where the tech is going to advance the most, probably at a rapid rate. Next gen consoles will have an APU and will have no where near the grunt required to do ray tracing any justice.

What needs to change is the price to get access to the tech. Currently that isn't possible at the moment with only a small minority willing to spend 4 figures on one component. But hopefully this will change over the years once AMD/Intel get on in the game and drive the competition that the GPU market desperately needs just now.

This is not really going to change. It's just simple economics. Most people have weak PCs, even most gamers (just check steam survey). Furthermore, development has become ever more expensive, so for the most part companies will target one platform (ie consoles, since the hardware is more or less the same between them) and then do some minor scaling up or down the range. There's not going to be huge technological discrepancies between versions. Probably just gonna be able to tweak # of rays & bounces on PC, maybe even choose which setting to get RT if they add multiple ones, but that's it mostly. Consoles will have some form of RT themselves so it's not like the setting will not be available at all to them. Plus with VRR becoming ubiquitous from HDMI 2.1 next year, dips below 60 will be very forgiving.

The biggest difference will remain motion, but even that, once 60 fps is achieved is mostly diminishing returns for most people, and definitely most games, and most certainly with a controller.

In fact I would wager console players on average will experience games at higher resolutions & framerates than the average PC gamer once the new consoles hit. After all, it's gonna be hard to compete with a £500 console when the GPU alone to achieve parity with that is >£400.

 

[Perfect_Chaos]

In fact I would wager console players on average will experience games at higher resolutions & framerates than the average PC gamer once the new consoles hit. After all, it's gonna be hard to compete with a £500 console when the GPU alone to achieve parity with that is >£400.

Tbf the next consoles will probably be similar to cards like the Nvidia 3060, might as well compare to that since the next series of cards will be out before the next consoles release. So by then less than £300. Though no doubt the consoles will offer good perf for the money, not up to a good gaming PC standard though.

 

[Poneros]

Tbf the next consoles will probably be similar to cards like the Nvidia 3060, might as well compare to that since the next series of cards will be out before the next consoles release. So by then less than £300. Though no doubt the consoles will offer good perf for the money, not up to a good gaming PC standard though.

I don't think so, because you have to remember how rarely people upgrade. There's still more people on GTX 760s than 2060s...

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

 

[Satchfanuk]

It's coming, honest

 

[Bluntwrapped]

Quake 2 RTX - surely someone is having a laugh? What next, Alex the Kid and Robocod RTX?

 

[Satchfanuk]

Quake 2 RTX - surely someone is having a laugh? What next, Alex the Kid and Robocod RTX?

I heard it was the original Command & Conquer they were doing next, followed by the original Doom

 

[HRL]

Quake 2 RTX - surely someone is having a laugh? What next, Alex the Kid and Robocod RTX?

Something less taxing. Manic Miner.

 

[Satchfanuk]

Something less taxing. Manic Miner.

Manic Miner and Jetset Willy were two of my favourite games growing up. I'd love to see someone tackle a modern day remake of those

 

[HRL]

Manic Miner and Jetset Willy were two of my favourite games growing up. I'd love to see someone tackle a modern day remake of those

Mine too. Had a soft spot for Ant Attack too, now I’d like to see an up to date version of that fully RT’d up.

 

[queamin]

Manic Miner and Jetset Willy, I liked them but they drove me mad, I liked Ant Attack as well, one of my favourite games around that time was atic atac.