Ships under attack in the middle east

[RoboCod]

I the words of Mags "Just LOL"

How is it an "act of piracy" for a government to detain and search a civilian vessel in their own territorial waters?

Gibraltar is part of the EU, the EU has sanctions related to supplying oil to Syria, this has nothing to do with the US policy/sanctions related to Iran's oil exports in general (which the UK doesn't currently support).

This vessel is, IIRC, registered in Panama and owned by a company based in Singapore. The crew is a mix of Indians, Pakistanis and Ukrainians.

Seemingly it was carrying Iranian oil, that alone isn't the reason for its seizure by the government of Gibraltar (and by extension the UK/British Military) but rather the suspected destination itself - Syria... which, as mentioned already, is subject to EU sanctions, an organisation that the UK (and by extension Gibraltar) are still members of!

The vessel supposedly was transporting oil from Iraq though in reality tracking data shows it coming from Iran, also it took the long way around Africa to get into the Med, deliberately avoiding the Suez where it might again have come under scrutiny.

Gibraltar has every right to do this within their waters, it isn't an act of piracy, their customs officers and police are investigating, the Royal Marines are no longer present and a Gibraltarian judge in their court has authorised the continued detention of the vessel for 14 days.

Don't feed the shill.

It's clear that some people don't understand how this works though. It's simply maritime patrol of territorial waters. Of course its going to be inflated through the media and shill bots to be something bigger politically, either on an internationally in the form of sabre rattling or heaven forbid, fasle flag operation! *dun dun dunnnn!*. I think some of these people actually think the prime minister and a back room of grey men sit around the table and orchestrate these things: "yes, this ship here, seize it, show the Iranians who is boss". When the reality is, maritime patrol in those territorial waters were just doing their jobs. I mean, it was pretty much the same situation with the Iranians shooting the MQ-4 down. A unit commander doing his job, not Rouhani himself playing some big chess game and saying "yes, shoot this down, that will really fire a rocket up the Americans arses". He wouldn't have known about the matter until after the event.

 

[dowie]

They're amusing though. Here is the statement from the Chief Minister:

https://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/press-releases/detention-of-super-tanker-the-grace-1-5062019-5095

In the early hours of this morning, Gibraltar Port and Law Enforcement agencies, assisted by a detachment of Royal Marines, boarded a super tanker carrying crude oil to Syria.

We have detained the vessel and its cargo.

This action arose from information giving the Gibraltar Government reasonable grounds to believe that the vessel, the Grace 1, was acting in breach of European Union sanctions against Syria.

In fact, we have reason to believe that the Grace 1 was carrying its shipment of crude oil to the Banyas Refinery in Syria.

That refinery is the property of an entity that is subject to European Union sanctions against Syria.

Yesterday we published Regulations and a Notice to enforce those sanctions against this vessel and its cargo.

I also gave a Direction requiring the Captain of the Port, assisted by the Royal Gibraltar Police and Her Majesty’s Customs to take control of the Grace 1.

With my consent, our Port and Law Enforcement agencies sought the assistance of the Royal Marines in carrying out this operation.

As the sanctions being enforced are established by the EU, I have written this morning to the Presidents of the European Commission and Council, setting out the details of the sanctions which we have enforced.

I want to thank the brave men and women of the Royal Marines, the Royal Gibraltar Police, Her Majesty's Customs Gibraltar and the Gibraltar Port Authority, for their work in securing the detention of this vessel and its cargo.

Be assured that Gibraltar remains safe, secure and committed to the international, rules-based, legal order.

 

[Nasher]

EU sanctions say the tanker needs to be stopped, so we stop it. An EU member complains. EU in a nutshell.

Anyway why did the Iranian tanker go all the way round Africa and not though the Strait of Hormuz though? Hmmm. Maybe because they knew what they were doing was illegal, or that an attack on Saudi tankers was about to happen so they avoided the area?

Iran knew what they were doing, they got caught and now think taking some random tanker (how will they even know where it's going?) as revenge is the right thing to do. Just goes to shows what kind of regime it is, one step away from being terrorists.

 

[stockhausen]

. . .
How is it an "act of piracy" for a government to detain and search a civilian vessel in their own territorial waters?
. . .

Detaining a civilian vessel in a state's own territorial waters in order to search it probably isn't against marine law.

However, detaining it indefinitely when it is transporting goods from "other state A" to "other state B" might be.

The United Kingdom is NOT the United Nations; it appears to be a vassal state of the USA

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

I the words of Mags "Just LOL"

How is it an "act of piracy" for a government to detain and search a civilian vessel in their own territorial waters?

Gibraltar is part of the EU, the EU has sanctions related to supplying oil to Syria, this has nothing to do with the US policy/sanctions related to Iran's oil exports in general (which the UK doesn't currently support).

This vessel is, IIRC, registered in Panama and owned by a company based in Singapore. The crew is a mix of Indians, Pakistanis and Ukrainians.

Seemingly it was carrying Iranian oil, that alone isn't the reason for its seizure by the government of Gibraltar (and by extension the UK/British Military) but rather the suspected destination itself - Syria... which, as mentioned already, is subject to EU sanctions, an organisation that the UK (and by extension Gibraltar) are still members of!

The vessel supposedly was transporting oil from Iraq though in reality tracking data shows it coming from Iran, also it took the long way around Africa to get into the Med, deliberately avoiding the Suez where it might again have come under scrutiny.

Gibraltar has every right to do this within their waters, it isn't an act of piracy, their customs officers and police are investigating, the Royal Marines are no longer present and a Gibraltarian judge in their court has authorised the continued detention of the vessel for 14 days.

The question I'd like answered is why Spain is up and arms, arent they bound to act on the EU sanctions also? Or is it only when it suits them?

 

[Dis86]

The question I'd like answered is why Spain is up and arms, arent they bound to act on the EU sanctions also? Or is it only when it suits them?

Because it's likely the tanker sailed through their waters and they were too incompetent to act. Hence making a lot of noise hoping nobody notices.

 

[dowie]

The question I'd like answered is why Spain is up and arms, arent they bound to act on the EU sanctions also? Or is it only when it suits them?

Because they don’t recognise Gibraltar’s waters and also they weren’t on the ball enough to intercept it themselves... then again Spain is pretty **** in general with regards to sanctions, they also let Russian warships refuel in their territory.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

Because it's likely the tanker sailed through their waters and they were too incompetent to act. Hence making a lot of noise hoping nobody notices.

Because they don’t recognise Gibraltar’s waters and also they weren’t on the ball enough to intercept it themselves... then again Spain is pretty **** in general with regards to sanctions, they also let Russian warships refuel in their territory.

I thought this might be the case, as far as I can see the UK acted on EU sanctions in place and should be commended for doing so? Not sure how anyone can criticize this really

 

[Minusorange]

Gibraltar is part of the EU, the EU has sanctions related to supplying oil to Syria, this has nothing to do with the US policy/sanctions related to Iran's oil exports in general (which the UK doesn't currently support).

EU Sanctions only apply to EU nations, Iran as far as I can see both geographically and politically is not part of the EU and therefore can give 2 fingers to EU sanctions, like they can give 2 fingers to US sanctions, neither are the World Police (UN), neither have any right to force their laws onto other sovereign states not part of their cabal

What we are doing is setting an example to Iran that it's okay to do this kind of thing in their own waters and to seemingly force ships into their waters in order to enact their own law and sanctions they wish to arbitrarily place on any country they deem as a "baddie"

 

[Dis86]

EU Sanctions only apply to EU nations, Iran as far as I can see both geographically and politically is not part of the EU and therefore can give 2 fingers to EU sanctions, like they can give 2 fingers to US sanctions, neither are the World Police (UN), neither have any right to force their laws onto other sovereign states not part of their cabal

What we are doing is setting an example to Iran that it's okay to do this kind of thing in their own waters and to seemingly force ships into their waters in order to enact their own law and sanctions they wish to arbitrarily place on any country they deem as a "baddie"

You've already had this explained to you...

By allowing the tanker to pass through the waters of an EU state would render them complicit.

 

[Firestar_3x]

EU Sanctions only apply to EU nations, Iran as far as I can see both geographically and politically is not part of the EU and therefore can give 2 fingers to EU sanctions, like they can give 2 fingers to US sanctions, neither are the World Police (UN), neither have any right to force their laws onto other sovereign states not part of their cabal

What we are doing is setting an example to Iran that it's okay to do this kind of thing in their own waters and to seemingly force ships into their waters in order to enact their own law and sanctions they wish to arbitrarily place on any country they deem as a "baddie"

Simpler terms perhaps? When going abroad you have to abide by the rules of that nation (not your home nation rules), hence the potential to life sentances in Dubia for the smallest amount of class B drugs.

For shipping you abide by the rules of the teritorial waters you are sailing though, don't like them then stay out.

Either a troll or thick or both, who knows.

Also love Spain, any chance to complain hey?

 

[Minusorange]

And I've already explained, the Gibraltar strait is an international strait, therefore they can't legally impose their law on ships who's only access is through it, they can only apply law if a ship enters internal waters not territorial waters where the ship actually was. Forcing a ship into internal waters like it seems the UK has done is very very questionable

Transit passage is a concept of the Law of the Sea, which allows a vessel or aircraft the freedom of navigation or overflight solely for the purpose of continuous and expeditious transit of a strait between one part of the high seas or exclusive economic zone and another. The requirement of continuous and expeditious transit does not preclude passage through the strait for the purpose of entering, leaving or returning from a state bordering the strait, subject to the conditions of entry to that state.

This navigation rule is codified in Part III of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.[1] Although not all countries have ratified the convention,[2] most countries, including the US,[3][4] accept the customary navigation rules as codified in the Convention. This navigation rule took on more importance with UNCLOS III as that convention confirmed the widening of territorial waters from three to twelve nautical miles, causing more straits not to have a navigation passage between the territorial waters of the coastal nations.

Transit passage exists throughout the entire strait, not just the area overlapped by the territorial waters of the coastal nations. The ships and aircraft of all nations, including warships, auxiliaries, and military aircraft, enjoy the right of unimpeded transit passage in such straits and their approaches. Submarines are free to transit international straits submerged since that is their normal mode of operation.[3] The legal regime of transit passage exists in the most important straits for the international trade exchange and security (Strait of Gibraltar, Dover Strait, Strait of Hormuz, Bab-el-Mandeb, Strait of Malacca).[5]

Transit passage rights do not extend to any state's internal waters within a strait.[1]

1. Subject to the provisions of this section, States bordering straits may adopt laws and regulations relating to transit passage through straits, in respect of all or any of the following:

(a) the safety of navigation and the regulation of maritime traffic, as provided in article 41;

(b) the prevention, reduction and control of pollution, by giving effect to applicable international regulations regarding the discharge of oil, oily wastes and other noxious substances in the strait;

(c) with respect to fishing vessels, the prevention of fishing, including the stowage of fishing gear;

(d) the loading or unloading of any commodity, currency or person in contravention of the customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations of States bordering straits.

From the UN - https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part3.htm

The laws of states bordering an international strait can only impose those laws listed above, EU sanctions cannot be imposed on non EU owned ships providing the ships do not enter internal waters

Why am I the only one who actually bothers to research this crap ? While you're all just assuming that what the UK is saying about being complicit with allowing Iran to sell oil to Syria is a legit excuse for piracy when it's legally ********

 

[Nasher]

Problem is the UN doesn't have any teeth, no one cares what they say. Because to do anything they need a unanimous vote and Russia and the US just vote the opposite to what the other wants.

The EU and Gibraltar's authorities wanted to enforce these sanctions so they did. The fact the Royal Marines carried it out is irrelevant, they act on the authority of whoever is in charge of the operation. Spain is kicking off because...well, it's Spain and they are butt-hurt over not owning Gibraltar and being able to control the straight themselves.

 

[Dis86]

Simpler terms perhaps? When going abroad you have to abide by the rules of that nation (not your home nation rules), hence the potential to life sentances in Dubia for the smallest amount of class B drugs.

For shipping you abide by the rules of the teritorial waters you are sailing though, don't like them then stay out.

Either a troll or thick or both, who knows.

Also love Spain, any chance to complain hey?

I'm going both. Especially after that last post...

 

[StriderX]

Problem is the UN doesn't have any teeth, no one cares what they say (especially Russia and the US).

The EU and Gibraltar's authorities wanted to enforce these sanctions so they did. The fact the Royal Marines carried it out is irrelevant, they were acting on orders from elsewhere. Spain is kicking off because...well, it's Spain and they are butt-hurt over not owning Gibraltar and being able to control the straight themselves.

We don't control the strait either (it's not the 19th century...), it's mostly Moroccan and Spanish waters, it's more about the ports at Gibraltar that matter really, which honestly this seems irrelevant because in this instance the crew could have just continued to int. waters.

 

[Minusorange]

I'm going both. Especially after that last post...

Yeah sure I'm a troll and thick because I'm actually researching and giving actual evidence to support my claim from the UN and just ignore it because it doesn't suit your narrative

What have you guys done apart from regurgitate the BBC and throw insults ?

 

[RoboCod]

Yeah sure I'm a troll and thick because I'm actually researching and giving actual evidence to support my claim from the UN and just ignore it because it doesn't suit your narrative

What have you guys done apart from regurgitate the BBC and throw insults ?

So let me get this right, your answer is to not follow the rules put in place and just let any ship come and go as it pleases? Sanctions or no sanctions?

 

[Rroff]

Why am I the only one who actually bothers to research this crap ? While you're all just assuming that what the UK is saying about being complicit with allowing Iran to sell oil to Syria is a legit excuse for piracy when it's legally ********

Do you have a track of the tanker positions handy? yesterday there was several going around which showed its positions relative to the various areas of sea but I didn't take much notice as I was busy and today I can't seem to find them/some have been deleted.

 

[Minusorange]

So let me get this right, your answer is to not follow the rules put in place and just let any ship come and go as it pleases? Sanctions or no sanctions?

Why do you think Spain did nothing ? Because they respected the maritime law set by the UN on international straits, unless they're at war then ships are entitled to free passage and sovereign law only applies if the ship enters internal waters or enters territorial waters not within the strait, the tanker did not do this, ergo UK is ignoring international agreements (no surprise there), we won't call it law because international law doesn't really exist it's just a fictitious statement countries like US & UK throw around when it suits them to adhere to agreements and ignore when they want to break it.

The guise of "oh if we let Iran through we're complicit in trading with Syria" is just propaganda which you guys are falling for hook line & sinker

Do you have a track of the tanker positions handy? yesterday there was several going around which showed its positions relative to the various areas of sea but I didn't take much notice as I was busy and today I can't seem to find them/some have been deleted.

You mean this ?



That's all I got at the time but it seems it was diverted where it changes from green to yellow ?

 

[Rroff]

Yeah that is the one - though there were some yesterday with an overlay of the various territorial waters.

There is a helicopter track as well which probably matches up with where the vessel was first intercepted.