Thomas Cook

Bounce · 22 Sep 2019 at 10:19

Thomas cook has been in trouble for years . It's years of mismanagement that's caused this .

I just hope those that booked get their money back.

Vanquish-Storm · 22 Sep 2019 at 10:23

A few takes i have on this from what I have read so I may be wrong on a few things (likely)

"Only" 9000 of the staff are UK based, so less than half. So any math on PAYE is less than calculated.

I know people could lose their jobs but why should the government bail out a private company for being poorly run, this goes for all companies.

Have the banks shot themselves in the foot? If TC goes bust they get nothing. If they carry on operating the banks get some money back. No?

Sui · 22 Sep 2019 at 10:23

Nitefly said:
Hearing reports of holiday go’ers being held in hotels or refused rooms until they cough up with their own cash. What a really crappy thing to happen on holiday.

Also, I have no doubt that the banks have deliberately done this to save short term cash knowing it’ll be cheaper for the state bail out than allow the fallout. Cheeky.

Yeah I read a post this morning of a hotel in Tunisia locking the gates and not allowing people to leave for their flights unless they pay....awful.

Bounce · 22 Sep 2019 at 10:29

Vanquish-Storm said:
A few takes i have on this from what I have read so I may be wrong on a few things (likely)

"Only" 9000 of the staff are UK based, so less than half. So any math on PAYE is less than calculated.

I know people could lose their jobs but why should the government bail out a private company for being poorly run, this goes for all companies.

Have the banks shot themselves in the foot? If TC goes bust they get nothing. If they carry on operating the banks get some money back. No?

Yes but they have already bailed them out , so there's no guarantee the banks would get their money back. Besides if the administrators come in they would sell all the assets, secured creditors would be the first to be paid.

Dirk Diggler · 22 Sep 2019 at 10:30

Em3bbs said:
...Yes, we should forget about progress...

You're confusing progress with a race to the bottom.

Em3bbs · 22 Sep 2019 at 10:33

String said:
You're confusing progress with a race to the bottom.

More and more people are travelling abroad for holidays now than ever. That requires more and more jobs. Where is the race to the bottom? You can still spend way over the odds if you like, and you'll probably get something a lot better in that case.

I've heard the same things over the decades, about computers, about robots taking jobs, yet we have record low unemployment now (and before you pull the zero hour contract card, it would still be record employment levels without those).

peterwalkley · 22 Sep 2019 at 10:36

Every few years a big travel firm goes bust and none have ever been bailed out by the government, so I can't see TC being any different. ATOL protection and travel insurance are there for a reason. Government will help with getting people home, but that's it.

Wife has a friend who is cabin crew for TC, so she's likely going to be looking for a new job very soon. I guess she'll only get the bare minimum redundancy from the National Insurance Fund as there's not going to be anything for the staff from the company.

Dirk Diggler · 22 Sep 2019 at 10:40

Em3bbs said:
More and more people are travelling abroad for holidays now than ever. That requires more and more jobs. Where is the race to the bottom? You can still spend way over the odds if you like, and you'll probably get something a lot better in that case.

I've heard the same things over the decades, about computers, about robots taking jobs, yet we have record low unemployment now (and before you pull the zero hour contract card, it would still be record employment levels without those).

You're away on a tangent.

The point I'm making is that sympathetic words toward the people losing their jobs is hollow; as a society we have contributed to the demise of the industry. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I'm just making the point.

As for the employment nirvana you seem think exists in the industry, have you noticed the recent court cases from BA & Ryanair regarding strike action? That's a bigger indicator of the race to the bottom in that industry IMO.

Dis86 · 22 Sep 2019 at 10:41

Yet another company run to the ground in the quest for shareholder profits?

413x · 22 Sep 2019 at 10:44

What would the bail out really achieve? Won't it just happen again?
Doesn't it come under.. If it isn't successful now and has had this nearly happen before isn't it just broken?
Obviously it's not profitable in the long term how it operates?

Its a bit unfair for the government to ball this out surely?

Maximum Triceratops · 22 Sep 2019 at 10:48

RDM said:
If it is only flights, will that be covered by ATOL?

Nope, unfortunately not. My only fallback is I booked on CC.

Bounce · 22 Sep 2019 at 10:55

Dis86 said:
Yet another company run to the ground in the quest for shareholder profits?

What's that suppose to mean ?

Em3bbs · 22 Sep 2019 at 11:14

String said:
As for the employment nirvana you seem think exists in the industry, have you noticed the recent court cases from BA & Ryanair regarding strike action? That's a bigger indicator of the race to the bottom in that industry IMO.

You really think a pay rise offer of 11.5% over three years by BA is a 'race to the bottom'?

rubberduck · 22 Sep 2019 at 11:17

Dis86 said:
Yet another company run to the ground in the quest for shareholder profits?

I think it is more a case of them failing to adapt and streamline their business model to a changing world.

Dis86 · 22 Sep 2019 at 11:48

rubberduck said:
I think it is more a case of them failing to adapt and streamline their business model to a changing world.

Which is confusing because they don't exactly seem to have a lack of customers so how the hell are they not making profit?

Chris Wilson · 22 Sep 2019 at 11:56

chaparral said:
I was wrong they have 21,000 staff so only £95 each

You are Diane Abbott and I claim my, err, "lots" of pounds....

Vanquish-Storm · 22 Sep 2019 at 12:44

Bounce said:
Yes but they have already bailed them out , so there's no guarantee the banks would get their money back. Besides if the administrators come in they would sell all the assets, secured creditors would be the first to be paid.

I see, that makes sense. So the banks would.most likely have calculated the scenarios and worked out which claws them most cash back and which is most likely to get them the cash back?

Mr Badger · 22 Sep 2019 at 12:59

sanaxe1 said:
I'm not sure, do i get refunded directly vi them or via ATOL / ABTA . We didn't use credit cards.

Ouch. Possibly you had a good reason for this, but as some advice for the future, I think you'll find it is always best when paying in advance for such things to use a credit card for the extra protection.

Dirk Diggler · 22 Sep 2019 at 13:15

Em3bbs said:
You really think a pay rise offer of 11.5% over three years by BA is a 'race to the bottom'?

How would I know what an acceptable figure would be, I don't work in the industry and have no idea how that figure is calculated. All I know is that staff from 2 different companies have been compelled to strike, and that is an indicator of how content they are [n't].

rubberduck said:
I think it is more a case of them failing to adapt and streamline their business model to a changing world.

What does that actually mean, do you have any examples of where they have failed to do this?

rubberduck · 22 Sep 2019 at 13:16

Dis86 said:
Which is confusing because they don't exactly seem to have a lack of customers so how the hell are they not making profit?

Reduced margin on package holidays because of trying to stay competitve with online competition. High overheads because of large amounts of stores to keep open and staff to pay.