Old car values.

[Lopéz]

That is ridiculous I paid less than half of that for my Pulsar 5-6 years ago. Fools and their money.

5-6 years ago is not representative of today.
What would you have to pay to buy a Pulsar now?
£8-£12k?

The Cinquecento maybe, because it's basically a kei car and those are worth loads now.

The Cinquecento is nothing like a kei car, do you know what a Kei car is?!

There was shock today on OcUK when forum users realised that car prices tend to follow the trend of: new - used - banger - classic.

I know

I'm not sure if some of you are familiar with the concept of supply and demand, particularly when the item in question is no longer available to purchase new.

I could have bought my XR3 for about £500 in 2005, now I'd be looking at more like £8000. That's how it goes, the knackered ones disappear and the good ones escalate in value rapidly.

The 205 GTI owners club is full of this sort of discussion. Someone will advertise a tidy 205 GTI for about 6 grand and owners will descend on it with valuations of about £1500.
Yeah righto, you tell me the last time you saw a nice, running, driving 205 GTI for £1500. Sure there was a time they were trading hands for £300 but that was years and years ago.

 

[Lopéz]

But at the shopping trolley level a modern 2k car is superior, for eg MK1 focus can be had for pennies, zetec engines are reliable, the car is well built and is far superior to a MK2 popular plus fiesta or corsa L. A Fiesta S/XR2 or a Corsa SRI/GSI are a different proposition.

Someone who wants a mint Mk2 Fiesta Popular plus is not going to making that purchase based on the superiority, build and reliability of it when stacked up against a far more modern car.

Honestly guys, has the heat gone to your heads or something? People don't buy classic, vintage or collectable items based on their efficiency/reliability/effectiveness/modernness - they buy them for the way that item makes them feel

 

[Frozennova]

Some of them came from the factory with forged engines as well, with much less emissions stuff choking performance, so big power from a tune. Coupled with being much lighter than a modern car

With the advent of high compression, direct injection turbo charged engines you'll find modern engines are engineered for strength far more than their 20 year old equivalents.

The same goes for power too.

A MK4 Supra made 325hp stock, and optimistically 400hp with an exhaust system and decat.

The B58 in the Mkv Supra is 335hp stock and a decat, opf delete and tune leaves you with 470hp.

Oh, and the MKV is also 50Kg lighter than an Mk4

 

[Nasher]

With the advent of high compression, direct injection turbo charged engines you'll find modern engines are engineered for strength far more than their 20 year old equivalents.

The same goes for power too.

A MK4 Supra made 325hp stock, and optimistically 400hp with an exhaust system and decat.

The B58 in the Mkv Supra is 335hp stock and a decat, opf delete and tune leaves you with 470hp.

Oh, and the MKV is also 50Kg lighter than an Mk4

That isn't a huge amount of progress in 20+ years though. Pretty sure the old supra will get way more than 400hp on stock internals as well, more like 600.

Plus I'd still bet the old 2JZ is more robust as they had less emissions regulations to worry about

 

[Frozennova]

That isn't a huge amount of progress in 20+ years though. Pretty sure the old supra will get way more than 400hp on stock internals as well, more like 600.

Plus I'd still bet the old 2JZ is more robust as they had less emissions regulations to worry about

Debunks all of crap you spout as usual. It's just as strong (or stronger), more power and torque both stock and with basic mods and it's lighter.

It's a huge amount of progress when you consider all of the emissions considerations that have to be made while still producing the same power output.

Then there's the fact that a 2JZ makes its 320ft-lbs peak torque at 4000RPM, the B58 produces and additional 60ft-lbs that's available 2400RPM sooner.

B58 has been proven past 600hp on stock internals too.

 

[silvagti]

That isn't a huge amount of progress in 20+ years though.

You could say that about a lot of combustion engines cars really in that what we had 20 years ago isn't massively inferior to what's out now in a lot of cases.

The main benefit from newer cars is mostly better economy/mpg and much improved Audiovisual systems.

As others have said I can see a lot of newer cars being scraped before the older ones due to the number of fancy electrical systems in them going wrong and not being economical to repair. Especially in an older car (10 year+) only worth a couple of grand it doesn't take much to fail before it isn't worth fixing.

 

[Nasher]

You could say that about a lot of combustion engines cars really in that what we had 20 years ago isn't massively inferior to what's out now in a lot of cases.

The main benefit from newer cars is mostly better economy/mpg and much improved Audiovisual systems.

As others have said I can see a lot of newer cars being scraped before the older ones due to the number of fancy electrical systems in them going wrong and not being economical to repair. Especially in an older car (10 year+) only worth a couple of grand it doesn't take much to fail before it isn't worth fixing.

There will be many with broken "infotainment" systems driving around, because it costs to much to replace and aftermarket ones won't fit. Even worse for the ones which put heating/AC controls on them as well.

 

[silvagti]

Or there will be many with broken "infotainment" systems driving around, because it costs to much to replace and aftermarket ones won't fit. Even worse for the ones which put heating/AC controls on them as well.

That's what I've been thinking seeing all the new cars being fitted with digital instrument clusters and fully integrated head units where key car features can only be accessed through them. I can see them going wrong and the displays failing costing thousands to repair or replace when the car is older.

Whereas with most cars before 2010 these features would all have been on simple individual buttons on the dashboard with the radio headunit completely separate in a standardized easily replaceable double or single DIN slot.

If your car stereo screen fails then it's not an issue however if that screen controls/displays car functions like speed, fuel capacity and climate controls then it'll fail an MOT and render the car unusable until it's repaired

 

[Nasher]

Try and explain that to a none techy and they bury their head in the sand though. These integrated systems will eventually die and the car will be scrap. There is no redundancy or serviceable components in them so you have to change the whole thing. Chances are by the time it does happen you won't be able to buy new replacements either.

 

[silvagti]

Try and explain that to a none techy and they bury their head in the sand though. These integrated systems will eventually die and the car will be scrap. There is no redundancy or serviceable components in them so you have to change the whole thing. Chances are by the time it does happen you won't be able to buy new replacements either.

I suppose manufacturers are incentivised to do it as it looks really cool and modern. Also, most people buy new cars on lease deals these days so won't be overly concerned about longer term reliability/repair costs. I feel it may impact second hand values somewhat though depending on how reliable, or otherwise, these systems turn out to be.

 

[Tinders]

Ze germans have had high tech stuff for decades now, yes it costs a packet to put right, but spares are plenty and there are companies like BBR reman offering repair services for the more common cars.

I must admit having sat back in the sun, I’m starting to understand the motivation of wanting something, it’s just the price I can’t get my head round as I don’t have the same love for base spec cars. We all have wierd tastes, I’ve just been looking at a pug 405 SRDT, it’s mint and is only a paltry 2k. And I’ve also got a 86 Corolla hatch in the garage but that only cost me £300. I’ve also got my eye on a Civic VTi, but again it’s a £600 cheap.....So in some respects it’s very much pot kettle black

 

[Doobedoo]

5-6 years ago is not representative of today.
What would you have to pay to buy a Pulsar now?
£8-£12k

Agreed I brought when prices were rock bottom the same car would cost much more now. Still doesn’t change the fact that, that corsa is still at least £4000 overpriced and my Pulsar was worth what I paid for it at the time.

 

[silvagti]

A mint 90s base spec IMO Corsa wouldn't have been worth paying that much for new back then and it still isn't worth paying that for now!

But we all have our own ideas. Maybe there's someone out there who had a base spec one as their first car and wants another just like it so it's willing to pay any amount for one with the lowest possible mileage in the best condition. Who knows?

Would love to know if that Corsa ever sells for the asking price actually!

 

[Vita]

Something like this isn’t expensive for what it is imo.

 

[Agent_Smith357]

Often these base model cars are used as a reshell for a more desirable model e.g XR2, RS Turbo etc as the value isn't in it being a 950cc shopping car but having a solid rust free shell.

 

[adam cool dude]

I have always pondered getting a mudane classic to use as a daily. Anything 1980 is now MOT and Tax Exempt. In a couple of years it will open up to some reasonably reliable cars.

5 Years down the road in something like this. Can't get any more eco friendly than this. More than likely works on veg oil.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes...525424?hash=item3425ec09f0:g:aRoAAOSwwnpekhsG

My ST205 GT-Four cost me £2200 back in 2012. Gone up quite a bit since then. I also still remember turning down a 70k 205 1.9 Gti in grey for 1500 quid in 09.

 

[Maccapacca]

My hilux was supposed to make it back on the road this year cost me £1,300

All running and rolling, needs an mot and the new wings lining up and painting. I sourced the proper mk2 bed rather than the one in the picture. Intention is to do a nice job on it but my kids will have it first as their first cars.

 

[233]

Still got a pair of Vauxhall omegas tucked away

ticks all the boxes 220/230 bhp rwd Manual and drifts for fun

still pick a decent one up for £1500 if you look around


Seriously tempted to try and pickup a mk2 xr2 or for ultimate teenage flashbacks a 2l 16v nova

nova with gsi kit and trim and a Saab turbo lump under the bonnet would also tick a lot of boxes personally

 

[adam cool dude]

Still got a pair of Vauxhall omegas tucked away

ticks all the boxes 220/230 bhp rwd Manual and drifts for fun

still pick a decent one up for £1500 if you look around


Seriously tempted to try and pickup a mk2 xr2 or for ultimate teenage flashbacks a 2l 16v nova

nova with gsi kit and trim and a Saab turbo lump under the bonnet would also tick a lot of boxes personally

Mk2 XR2 are ridiculous money. I could Name ten 80's hot hatches I would rather own than one of those!

 

[233]

Had quite a few back in the 90s including a very tasty ex race car running a 1900 cvh on 45s

probably only making an optimistic 145-150bhp but ridiculous run


Still not a patch on a valver nova though had one of those making 175bhp stripped and caged as a daily