The gypsy problem

FortuitousFluke said:
Cool, will we apply the same criteria to others, a kind of three strikes and you're deported to Siberia thing? Or is this just for travellers.
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3 guys walk into a busy restaurant and start tipping over tables and knocking people out. Do you meet force with force or do you keep politely asking them to please stop what they're doing?

You understand it's a core component of human psychology that there must be consequences for actions?
 
NVP said:
Not travellers, gypsies.
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So Romani gypsies?

LCG-xyz said:
3 guys walk into a busy restaurant and start tipping over tables and knocking people out. Do you meet force with force or do you keep politely asking them to please stop what they're doing?
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I call the police, if I can restrain them with help I do, then I allow the law to do what it does. Or if it's looking particularly bad I get the hell out of there. Is there a point here somewhere?
 
FortuitousFluke said:
So Romani gypsies?



I call the police, if I can restrain them with help I do, then I allow the law to do what it does. Or if it's looking particularly bad I get the hell out of there. Is there a point here somewhere?
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There are no police or anyone else that can help. The point is, is it reasonable to meet force with force. I'm guessing that was your objection?
 
Btw, I would pay money (quite a bit actually) to see a documentary on a 'troubled' traveling community re-homed to Siberia and how they got on with the locals.
 
LCG-xyz said:
There are no police or anyone else that can help. The point is, is it reasonable to meet force with force. I'm guessing that was your objection?
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I have no objection to reasonable force, it's enshrined in law. What you're advocating is not reasonable force. You're talking about sending the army into civilian camps, removing people at gun point and then deporting them with zero grounds for doing so, and no criminal activity is not grounds for deportation, unless due process is followed and the person involved is not a British citizen.

To add another level of concern for me, you seem unwilling to say whether you would apply this same response to all law breakers of a similar severity, or whether you'd prefer to focus these armed deportations one a single minority group.
 
FortuitousFluke said:
I have no objection to reasonable force, it's enshrined in law. What you're advocating is not reasonable force. You're talking about sending the army into civilian camps, removing people at gun point and then deporting them with zero grounds for doing so, and no criminal activity is not grounds for deportation, unless due process is followed and the person involved is not a British citizen.

To add another level of concern for me, you seem unwilling to say whether you would apply this same response to all law breakers of a similar severity, or whether you'd prefer to focus these armed deportations one a single minority group.
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I see your mistake now! You think they're people! Silly bugger.
 
FortuitousFluke said:
I have no objection to reasonable force, it's enshrined in law. What you're advocating is not reasonable force. You're talking about sending the army into civilian camps, removing people at gun point and then deporting them with zero grounds for doing so, and no criminal activity is not grounds for deportation, unless due process is followed and the person involved is not a British citizen.

To add another level of concern for me, you seem unwilling to say whether you would apply this same response to all law breakers of a similar severity, or whether you'd prefer to focus these armed deportations one a single minority group.
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It seems that there's a bit of Gestalt theory with travelers, the sum of their actions is greater than the individual 'offences'. They sweep into a town/village and decimate what were peaceful communities with residents fearful of leaving the house and in some cases, fearful for their lives.

Are you advocating that kind of impact on law-abiding, tax-paying people who are just doing their best? Should those families be terrorised by people who think they're outside the law? People who don't pay for the consequences of their actions?

We have a system here, it works relatively well. Why should we tolerate people who don't care about others at all?

You're acting like forced exclusion isn't millennia old.
 
LCG-xyz said:
It seems that there's a bit of Gestalt theory with travelers, the sum of their actions is greater than the individual 'offences'. They sweep into a town/village and decimate what were peaceful communities with residents fearful of leaving the house and in some cases, fearful for their lives.

Are you advocating that kind of impact on law-abiding, tax-paying people who are just doing their best? Should those families be terrorised by people who think they're outside the law? People who don't pay for the consequences of their actions?

We have a system here, it works relatively well. Why should we tolerate people who don't care about others at all?

You're acting like forced exclusion isn't millennia old.
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Lot's of things are millennia old, human sacrifice, genocide, age is not an indication if quality.

I've got no problem with punishment for people breaking the law, I just don't approve of a two tier legal system, they've existed for millennia too, and they don't tend to end well either.

If you've got a hard on for militarised police and forced relocation why not apply it even handily?

I wouldn't support it but I could understand it better at least.

Failing that just make sure the current laws are applied and enforced. Job done, significant airfare saved.
 
FortuitousFluke said:
Lot's of things are millennia old, human sacrifice, genocide, age is not an indication if quality.

I've got no problem with punishment for people breaking the law, I just don't approve of a two tier legal system, they've existed for millennia too, and they don't tend to end well either.

If you've got a hard on for militarised police and forced relocation why not apply it even handily?

I wouldn't support it but I could understand it better at least.

Failing that just make sure the current laws are applied and enforced. Job done, significant airfare saved.
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Are you deliberately ignoring the part where I said the police are ill-equipped, under-staffed and under-funded? It's the size of the task that denotes the level of the response.

You can't send a couple of bobbies in there with their pleases and thank yous.
 
LCG-xyz said:
Are you deliberately ignoring the part where I said the police are ill-equipped, under-staffed and under-funded? It's the size of the task that denotes the level of the response.

You can't send a couple of bobbies in there with their pleases and thank yous.
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Then equip them, staff them, and fund them?
 
FortuitousFluke said:
Lot's of things are millennia old, human sacrifice, genocide, age is not an indication if quality.

I've got no problem with punishment for people breaking the law, I just don't approve of a two tier legal system, they've existed for millennia too, and they don't tend to end well either.

If you've got a hard on for militarised police and forced relocation why not apply it even handily?

I wouldn't support it but I could understand it better at least.

Failing that just make sure the current laws are applied and enforced. Job done, significant airfare saved.
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Can you point to any other group that exists in a community like they do, completely outside of the standards of ordinary society that is responsible for as much criminality and lawlessness?
 
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