Agile project management - total beginner...

SideWinder

SideWinder

SideWinder

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I've been offered the opportunity to go on an agile project management course (funded) so i am looking for the "best" and for a total beginner.

I have found PMI-ACP and i think this is the one...BUT looking at the overview, it suggests i should have previous project management experience (which i don't).

Can anyone offer an insight?
 
I would look at the PRINCE2 Agile Foundation courses. (No prerequisites)

The PRINCE2 Agile series is tiered, so you start with Foundation, once you have that you can go on to do the Practitioner course..

See here for a quick overview (https://www.itonlinelearning.com/co...GpdyNH9nd0jL0BeYSoyzZtxX2PTawPyYaAiCmEALw_wcB)

The nice thing with PRINCE2 is simply that it's a recognised qualification so it's actually worth something by doing it.

I won't go in to the usefulness/context of project management courses, that's a discussion and a half.. :)
 
I've heard of Prince2 so that is a start!

Although i am experienced in managing projects/teams, i haven't got any certificates to "prove it" so to speak...so may have been doing them incorrectly! :p
 
Assuming this is funded by your employer, it might be worth finding out what methodologies they use and (if it's mainstream enough) seek out training tailored to that.

For example, Scrum is one of the more common agile methodologies. If you use that then look at Scrum Master training potentially (I would highly recommend Geoff Watts ( https://www.scrumalliance.org/community/profile/gwatts ) as a trainer, he is literally the most impressive trainer I've ever worked with, in any discipline - a very rare breed that is happy to take questions about how theory can be applied to specific situations and talk through it sticking to his guns, as opposed to "erm well yes, you might not always be able to apply this in practice... anyway, moving to page 56 of your handbooks....")
 
My employer uses agile so wants to get me up to speed.

I've just been recommended CAPM (Certified Associate in Project Management) as an introduction which may be good for me and then Prince2 agile foundation could be next.

I've googled some exam questions to gauge if i knew a bit already and wow i feel v unintelligent. :(
 
HangTime said:
Assuming this is funded by your employer, it might be worth finding out what methodologies they use and (if it's mainstream enough) seek out training tailored to that.

For example, Scrum is one of the more common agile methodologies. If you use that then look at Scrum Master training potentially (I would highly recommend Geoff Watts ( https://www.scrumalliance.org/community/profile/gwatts ) as a trainer, he is literally the most impressive trainer I've ever worked with, in any discipline - a very rare breed that is happy to take questions about how theory can be applied to specific situations and talk through it sticking to his guns, as opposed to "erm well yes, you might not always be able to apply this in practice... anyway, moving to page 56 of your handbooks....")
Click to expand...

This is a really good answer. A lot of companies preach Agile, but in reality it really isn't the case. If you have any questions, I'm sure there is more then enough of us on here to help out :)
 
Interested to hear views on PRINCE2 Agile; historically PRINCE2 used to get a lot of flak for being quite traditional and not really aligned to Agile methodologies (i.e. people would consider it synonymous with Waterfall, and the public sector). When I did the normal Practitioner course (2012 I think) it definitely didn't seem that agile, but to be fair they did highlight that it intended as a framework rather than prescriptive methodology and does not mandate use of Waterfall. The cynic in me wonders if them offering a PRINCE2 Agile is just to try and deflect that criticism and avoid missing out on a whole market segment, but I haven't looked into it so for all I know it could be a solid framework.
 
Interesting concept .. an Agile "Project" manager. Anyway Prince2 itself doesn't align to the Agile methodology, it too heavy weight and inflexible.

As has already been said it's better to find out which methodologies are being used by your company and training in that.
 
SideWinder said:
I've been offered the opportunity to go on an agile project management course (funded) so i am looking for the "best" and for a total beginner.

I have found PMI-ACP and i think this is the one...BUT looking at the overview, it suggests i should have previous project management experience (which i don't).

Can anyone offer an insight?
Click to expand...

i am actually curious how they verify prior PM experience. Is it just a checkbox? Do they have any requirements or definitions? Do they call employers to verify, how do they handle cases where the company no longer exists, or your job title wasn't officially listed as PM? Which then leads to the dichotomy that many Agile proponents (wrongly) claim Agile doesn't have a Project Manager, so how you you get an Agile PM certificate that requires 1 year prior PM experience in Agile.

I'm also interested in becoming certified, and i have years of PM experience, but most of it not in specific role snd the company is bankrupt. Moreover,for the last 2 years I was CEO of the European subsidiary, so have authority to sign off that I have experience in whatever role I imagine.
 
Robdav said:
Interesting concept .. an Agile "Project" manager. .
Click to expand...
That is the kind of evangelical attitude that turns business away from Agile.

Agile itself is just a philosophy that prescribes certain values and principles that have long been valued in project management. It, in itslef, is not a methodology and does not make any claims about the existence of a Project manager. n fact, the Agile manifesto itself would suggest the opposite "individuals and interactions over processes and tools". So a Project manager interacting with staff is more important than a process like Scrum, or a tool like Jira etc.
Then a specific project management methodology that purportedly follows Agile principles, Scrum, actually has 2 project managers with a separation of duty. The Scrum master is a technical project manager of the team, the Product owner manages the team and business values. The separation has pros and cons. And nothing in the Agile manifesto suggest you cannot have a 3rd Project manager that may deal with more personnel related matters, although the Product Owner or Scrum master could take this on. Remember - agile is abut being adaptive and not having a 1 size fits all approach. There are of course any number of project management methodologies, and any open of them can require a project manager.

The only real agile statement about Project managers is that they shouldn't be authoritarian and rigid, but work closely with the team and share some responsibility with the team to let them self-organize.
 
SideWinder said:
Mm just caught up with a mate's mate aaaaand yeah she also said Prince2 is far too heavy for me to get into..especially for a start up! :p

Suggested i take a look at the below:

https://www.apm.org.uk/qualifications-and-training/project-management-fundamentals/
Click to expand...

My partner is a project engineer and went straight to the management qualification with APM and had no issue with it. She had only just moved from a procurement based role so had minimal experience.

Highly recommends it but recommends skipping the fundamentals if you already have experience.
 
D.P. said:
That is the kind of evangelical attitude that turns business away from Agile.


The Scrum master is a technical project manager of the team...
Click to expand...

A scrum master is not a technical project manager. They are different roles. One is command and control based, the other is a servant-leader.

Project Manager:
  • Manages the budget
  • Reports to business leadership on project progress
  • Focuses on process
  • Allocates tasks
  • Priorities features
  • Manages risk
  • Coordinates with other dependent teams
Scrum Master:
  • Serves the team where needed
  • Removes blockers or impediments that hinder project progress
  • Coaches the product owner
  • Monitoring the progress of the sprint
  • Helps team estimate and increase velocity
  • Promotes continuous communication
  • Facilitates sprint planning and other scrum meetings
  • Monitors and helps improve team dynamics
  • Lends support to whatever part of the project needs assistance at a certain time
  • Motivates the team
  • Acts as the glue that holds the team together
 
D.P. said:
That is the kind of evangelical attitude that turns business away from Agile.

Agile itself is just a philosophy that prescribes certain values and principles that have long been valued in project management. It, in itslef, is not a methodology and does not make any claims about the existence of a Project manager. n fact, the Agile manifesto itself would suggest the opposite "individuals and interactions over processes and tools". So a Project manager interacting with staff is more important than a process like Scrum, or a tool like Jira etc.
Then a specific project management methodology that purportedly follows Agile principles, Scrum, actually has 2 project managers with a separation of duty. The Scrum master is a technical project manager of the team, the Product owner manages the team and business values. The separation has pros and cons. And nothing in the Agile manifesto suggest you cannot have a 3rd Project manager that may deal with more personnel related matters, although the Product Owner or Scrum master could take this on. Remember - agile is abut being adaptive and not having a 1 size fits all approach. There are of course any number of project management methodologies, and any open of them can require a project manager.

The only real agile statement about Project managers is that they shouldn't be authoritarian and rigid, but work closely with the team and share some responsibility with the team to let them self-organize.
Click to expand...

As a Scrum Master, I'll tell you now this role is not a technical project manager. The Project manager role is essentially spread between the product owner and team.
My role is to coach and facilitate the team to try and aid them to become more effective. Not to manage a project....

The reason people are questioning a Prince agile course is because generally projects try to lock down, scope, time and cost where agile development is more flexible on these, in particular scope due to uncertainty in assumptions that you make along the way till you validate them through an iterative development process.

However scaled initiatives/businesses may involve a form of project management to help support alignment across multiple teams.
 
Deaths_Calling said:
As a Scrum Master, I'll tell you now this role is not a technical project manager. The Project manager role is essentially spread between the product owner and team.
My role is to coach and facilitate the team to try and aid them to become more effective. .
Click to expand...
That is exactly what a project manager does, there are additional duties related to budget etc, but facilitating the team and improving the process efficiency is the central goal of a project manager.
Robdav said:
A scrum master is not a technical project manager. They are different roles. One is command and control based, the other is a servant-leader.

Project Manager:
  • Manages the budget
  • Reports to business leadership on project progress
  • Focuses on process
  • Allocates tasks
  • Priorities features
  • Manages risk
  • Coordinates with other dependent teams
Scrum Master:
  • Serves the team where needed
  • Removes blockers or impediments that hinder project progress
  • Coaches the product owner
  • Monitoring the progress of the sprint
  • Helps team estimate and increase velocity
  • Promotes continuous communication
  • Facilitates sprint planning and other scrum meetings
  • Monitors and helps improve team dynamics
  • Lends support to whatever part of the project needs assistance at a certain time
  • Motivates the team
  • Acts as the glue that holds the team together
Click to expand...


The issue is, absolutely everything you have listed as the responsibilities of the Scrum master is also part of a traditional Project Manager in a traditional project management framework. In Scrum, there is simply a separation of the technical and team aspects of project management and the business and budget responsibilities. I know in many agile camps it is very popular to pretend that Agile doesn't have a project manager or Scum master isn't a project manager but the reality is these are artificial distinctions. Scrum does explicitly separate duties, and there may be some advantage in doing that, but Agile starts to loose a lot of respect when it becomes taboo to call a spade a spade.


Moreover, Scrum is not the definition of Agile. It is merely one possible project management methodology that prescribes a scrum master and product owner and tries to pretend there isn't project manager responsibilities between these 2. The Agile Manifesto itself says absolutely nothing about the existence of a project manager, and since the whole philosophy is about adapting the methodology for each project, team and corporation it is absolutely possible to have project manager in a Agile environment.

This tends to arise from another major issue with the way many view Agile - that it is directly competing with waterfall as if that is the only alternative project management framework, and since waterfall has a project manager and everything vaguely related to waterfall must be inherent evil for some reason, then so must project managers.


EDIT; going back a step, I was mostly referring to Agile in general, and the existence of Agile project managers. With other Agile frameworks there is an explicit project manager, e.g. Dynamic systems development method (DSDM) this is a specified role. With something like Kanban, a project manager is almost certainly needed to realize success.
 
Last edited:
SideWinder said:
I've been offered the opportunity to go on an agile project management course (funded) so i am looking for the "best" and for a total beginner.

I have found PMI-ACP and i think this is the one...BUT looking at the overview, it suggests i should have previous project management experience (which i don't).

Can anyone offer an insight?
Click to expand...
My company is sending half my department on this course next week, Monday to Wednesday.
I can let you know how it is. None of us have direct pm experience but we've all worked with agile methodology to a degree.

Fwiw my company is nasdaq100 with 3k employees worldwide, and we greatly encourage self study and learning. So when they pick an official training course for us with an exam, we know the HR training department have done their homework. Department is evenly split across Europe, with heavier weighting in uk France and Germany, so this course is relevent to more than just uk
 
In my experience it is quite rare for a Project Manager to "Priorities [sic] features". The actual priorities will usually be set by a project board, sponsor or whatever; the PM then takes those priorities and shapes their plan accordingly.
 
D3K said:
My company is sending half my department on this course next week, Monday to Wednesday.
I can let you know how it is. None of us have direct pm experience but we've all worked with agile methodology to a degree.
Click to expand...

How was day 1?

randomshenans said:
I did the CAPM from PMI. Thought it was OK. It's still pretty heavy mind but not a bad cert to have.
Click to expand...

I have never done a course before (weird perhaps i know) but could you elaborate on what made it heavy?
 
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