How much would a replacement battery pack cost bearing in mind battery technology is getting better and the prices are always falling?It would have most likely done 500k by the time you can pick one up for 1k or 2k
EV general discussion
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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Why would you want to replace the battery pack on an old car that was still good because you can get more range or faster charging?
It’s the equivalent of upgrading an engine in an old car because the new one gets more MPGs. Just buy a different car that has better capabilities.
Mainstream cars really aren’t going to get much better than what Tesla currently offers in the Model 3 and frankly it really doesn’t need to. It just needs to get cheaper.
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It was about replacing an old worn battery pack?
Isn’t the point that you shouldn’t need to on a good EV?
The only cars that seem to have significant issues with degradation are the ones that don’t have thermally managed battery packs e.g. the leaf. Sure there are going to be a few cottage industries retrofitting them with big 60kw packs but in the reality no one is actually going to do it.
If the timing belt snaps in an old Ford Focus, at the very best you’ll put in an old engine from a crashed car. More than likely the car will just be written off or parted out.
The only cars that seem to have significant issues with degradation are the ones that don’t have thermally managed battery packs e.g. the leaf. Sure there are going to be a few cottage industries retrofitting them with big 60kw packs but in the reality no one is actually going to do it.
If the timing belt snaps in an old Ford Focus, at the very best you’ll put in an old engine from a crashed car. More than likely the car will just be written off or parted out.
yes you don’t, but Tesla seems to rate the packs for 500k?
In the future Manufacturers may offer retrofit options.
Which is what will happen with battery packs from written off cars as more and more hit the roads and the car is damaged but the pack is Ok. You can imagine something like the MEB VW cars sharing packs that are near enough identical, with maybe small software variations. Fitting an older car with a pack from a much newer vehicle that has been damaged will be big business, just like refurbishing gear boxes and engines are now.
SO you might end up with a worn interior, some panel damage, and badly looked after paint and no warranty left on the motor, but the pack is almost new so the car stays on the road and useful.
As above unless things change a lot by the time prices come down to that kind of budget you are well into that kind of mileage and replacement batteries will be in the 1000s unless things change as li-ion is not cheap and already has mass market driving prices.
In the real world you are going to see capacity drop off a long way before 500K depending on age - several models even are down to 80% capacity after 3-4 years and 100-120K.
The thing that may impose a big change is the robotaxi service, that will mean the cars aren’t ever going to be worth 3k.
The one that is going to be annoying for me is EV pickups - my usage doesn't justify the kind of prices they are going to cost - as is I look at the up to 20K (not inc. VAT) market. I'd happily move to EV there if the range is comparable (My Navara gets around 450 miles on road and less off-road) to current ones as a good bit of usage isn't far from charge points.
Honda dealer down the road had a funky little blue thing outside, looked like one of the quirky models people import from Japan.
It was one of the new Honda E cars in a gorgeous Blue colour.
For a little Fiat 500-ish sized thing I thought it looked great!
So much I jumped on the Honda site to spec one up, ouch at the price though.
Be cool if they did a hotter one, looks a cracking little car (just ignore the price).
It was one of the new Honda E cars in a gorgeous Blue colour.
For a little Fiat 500-ish sized thing I thought it looked great!
So much I jumped on the Honda site to spec one up, ouch at the price though.
Be cool if they did a hotter one, looks a cracking little car (just ignore the price).
Honda-E is a testament to how to make something the same but different. I don't think they care about the price being high, people who like them will buy it because it is different. Not sure why you need a 'hotter' city car, it's meant for town traffic where you are lucky to manage more than 30mph.
Oh yes there’s no need for a hotter one, but we always want more here right, wouldn’t be called Overclockers else would it 
Same could be said for most hot hatches I guess, there’s no need for them, but we like them
Thought it looked great though, tempted to pop in and have a proper nose at it and see if can have a drive.
Same could be said for most hot hatches I guess, there’s no need for them, but we like them
Thought it looked great though, tempted to pop in and have a proper nose at it and see if can have a drive.
Soldato
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Are chargepoints all much of a muchness? Im going down the PHEV route for a couple of years, but im going to need to get a point fitted, with the grant dropping down, i might have to self source and get a sparky to fit rather than go down the grant route.
So anyway, I was thinking of going for the 7KW setup as my next car after this will be full electric, so what kind of chargepoint would be worth going for.
So anyway, I was thinking of going for the 7KW setup as my next car after this will be full electric, so what kind of chargepoint would be worth going for.
Yes and no. They'll all charge a car at 7.4kw but some will have additional features which may or may not be useful to you. I'd imagine the OLEV route would be cheaper regardless, a big proportion of the cost is the install its self.
It's generally recommended you get a tethered charger (cable permanently attached), these are more expensive but it means you can leave your type 2 cable in the car to use with public chargers. Most people also get bored very quickly of getting the cable out/putting it away each time you need to use it. Buying an additional type 2 cable will be more expensive than the cost differential of getting tethered charger.
They could also have additional features like additional circuitry to make installation easier, automatically integrating with your energy tariff (very useful if you are on time of use based tariff), integrate with solar power, daisy chaining multiple chargers off a single supply, app support, opening the charge port (Tesla), security features etc. Some will do almost all of the above, others may have 1 or 2 features all at various price points.
Soldato
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Why can't you leave your Type 2 cable in the car if you have an untethered charger?
This is exactly what I do. I only need the cable if the car's there...If I had a garage I'd get tethered, but anything on the outside of a house I'd get untethered. They're neater, smaller and more discreet. You can only use the OLEV grant for a smart charger but you can get apps to make dumb chargers even smarter than those depending on your car so the benefits will depend on your usage, electricity provider and car. https://ev.energy for example.
I am not sure about reality no one is actually going to do it. There are a number of people like myself that buy a car and keep it a very long time. I can see myself getting a Leaf and then in 15 years upgrading the battery and running for years more. When I get a car I like, I tend to keep it and run it to the ground and would rather upgrade it then buy a new car. Yes the sensible thing is to buy a new car but some of us get attached to the car and would rather keep it with upgrades.
Why can't you leave your Type 2 cable in the car if you have an untethered charger?
I never said you can’t, it’s 100% a convenience thing but I appear to have struck a nerve there...
It’s generally recommended to take the type 2 cable with you which means you have to mess around with it every time you use the car instead of just getting in and going. For a PHEV, that’s pretty much every time you drive the car. For the sake of a few extra £ you can leave the type 2 cable coiled up in the bottom of the boot for when you need it rather than having to mess around with it every time.
You can of course leave them in the charger but that defeated the point and it could get stolen as some chargers unlock the cable when charging is completed (they should still be locked to the car until you unlock it).
Another option which may work depending on your house layout is getting a blue plug fitted somewhere and using a portable charger like the Tesla UMC or Juice Booster which are capable of 7kw. They can be handy if you don’t have anything solid near by to attach a wall unit to.
You’d really spend north of £4K on a new battery pack for a 15 year old leaf?
Even if at the pack level costs got down to the fabled $100/kWh in 5 years time, a 30kwh pack is still going to cost $3000, plus mark up, shipping, fitting and VAT. Were not there yet at the cell level, let alone at the pack level.
I get doing it on something special like a gen 1 Tesla Roaster or a gen 1 Porsche Tycan, where there are not many out here and have a hope of becoming a classic. But a Leaf?
At best you are looking at a used pack from a crashed car but even those are going to fetch significant sums of money on the used market because of how valuable the cells are, even well used ones.
People literally scrap perfectly serviceable old cars that have no faults because of wear and tear items that cost a few hundred £ to replace like new disks and pads or the timing belt needs changing. Perhaps what I should have said only a handful of people are actually going to do it...
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You are think the value now, not the value in 10-15 years though which was the posters point. If he keeps a car for 10-15 years and needs a new pack, he'll buy one, likely from a scrap merchant at that point in time.
I get that but even a used pack is still going to cost huge sums of money going forward. Batteries are getting bigger, most cars on sale now have 50kwh pack which pushes up the cost, call that £7-8k retail. Would you get a used one for half the price? Possibly, but I’d expect it to be well used.
The other factor is that the cells are a commodity, they have other uses outside of being used in another car unlike an engine. There is significant demand for used EV cells for things like static storage being a prime example.
The other factor is that the cells are a commodity, they have other uses outside of being used in another car unlike an engine. There is significant demand for used EV cells for things like static storage being a prime example.
The average (usable) pack size of the current EV is ~60.5kWh including unreleased models.
I totally agree, but we are still in the infancy of cell manufacturing in capacity terms, and the more demand there is the more supply will appear. Once you start seeing UK sales of BEVs >700k per year which should be around 2030 the worldwide supply of cells will be much larger. We also have to take into account changing technologies, in 10 years time they might be using new types of batteries which means the old less efficient and dirtier to manufacturer ones lose popularity.
Going back to the posters point, if they bought a brand new Nissan Leaf 62kWh this year, and kept it for 12 years until 2032, taking inflation into account how much would you really be spending to replace the pack vs buying a new car? All you can do is guess, as neither you or I can see the exact future.