They should have used Taser on all of them...

deuse · 4 Aug 2020 at 14:47

The Running Man said:
The story is confusing as it says the police were originally called by the father after he pushed a member of staff.

The staff were getting a bit fed up with the family as they wouldn't adhere to visiting times and were trying to refuse the hospitals decision on the care for the child.

The child had been in this state for 2 years, and despite minor improvements when the child was given steroids was not going to recover.

The parents wanted to continue for as long as possible.

The staff wanted to restrict the visiting hours of the parents as they had been threatening towards the staff presumably because the parents wouldn't stick to visiting hours and disagreed with the next steps.

Thats my understanding.

It is a strange one.

We haven't got visiting in my area.
In fact they love you to come and stay as long as you like.

deuse · 4 Aug 2020 at 14:47

Hades said:
I don't know the full story about why they were being asked to leave. In my experience hospital staff tend to do everything possible to let the family be with a dying relative at the end. The family did not appear to be causing a scene at the start of the video although we don't see what happened before. So there may be more than we are seeing on the video. Either way my deepest sympathies go out to the girl and her family.

But I know for a fact that if it were my daughter I would have refused to leave. They would have to drag me out of there too. I'm sorry but a parent needs to be there at the end wherever possible. We also don't know whether the girl could hear what was going on. If she could then it would have been very distressing for her in her final minutes when all she would want was comfort from her parents.

There is so little compassion and empathy in this country now. It's very sad.

Same here.

The Running Man · 4 Aug 2020 at 14:54

Trusty said:
Over and over again? The police were talking to the parents for less than 2 minutes before sticking the father in a chokehold. You don't know whether he had any intention of moving.
It was the 1st time the police had been called, i imagine when the parents saw the police, they knew deep down that the issue would have to be resolved there and then, but 2 mins is not enough time to do that

Count how many times they ask, starting with 'can we have a chat outside'

Trusty · 4 Aug 2020 at 14:59

The Running Man said:
Count how many times they ask, starting with 'can we have a chat outside'

Why don't you tell me..

The Running Man · 4 Aug 2020 at 15:23

Trusty said:
Why don't you tell me..

4 times in the first 20 seconds, then the woman turns around and says, '...do you know what, we're not going to'

At this point it's clear that they are being belligerent. The police continue to ask politely to no avail.

Trusty · 4 Aug 2020 at 15:27

The Running Man said:
4 times in the first 20 seconds, then the woman turns around and says, '...do you know what, we're not going to'

At this point it's clear that they are being belligerent. The police continue to ask politely to no avail.

4? Doesn't seem like a lot tbh. Still doesn't excuse putting the father in a chokehold within 2 minutes. Their daughter is lying next to them as well. Clearly we're not gonna agree on this..

The Running Man · 4 Aug 2020 at 15:32

Trusty said:
4? Doesn't seem like a lot tbh. Still doesn't excuse putting the father in a chokehold within 2 minutes. Their daughter is lying next to them as well. Clearly we're not gonna agree on this..

I'll ask again, if you are going to blatantly try to ignore and resist the police what do you expect them to do?

Dis86 · 4 Aug 2020 at 15:34

Trusty said:
4? Doesn't seem like a lot tbh. Still doesn't excuse putting the father in a chokehold within 2 minutes. Their daughter is lying next to them as well. Clearly we're not gonna agree on this..

Twice is too many.

Trusty · 4 Aug 2020 at 15:40

The Running Man said:
I'll ask again, if you are going to blatantly try to ignore and resist the police what do you expect them to do?

Talk to them for longer than a couple of minutes for sure. Sit down with them, make yourself the same level and explain to them what they want to talk to them about, whats going to happen and why they need to do it.

Dis86 · 4 Aug 2020 at 15:41

Trusty said:
Talk to them for longer than a couple of minutes for sure. Sit down with them, make yourself the same level and explain to them what they want to talk to them about, whats going to happen and why they need to do it.

They're not children or mentally handicapped. They're grown and highly qualified adults.

Trusty · 4 Aug 2020 at 15:42

Dis86 said:
Twice is too many.

The father thought his daughter was going to be having her life support taken off imminently, would you go with the police if you thought you might not be there when the doctors took your daughter off it?

Trusty · 4 Aug 2020 at 15:43

Dis86 said:
They're not children or mentally handicapped. They're grown and highly qualified adults.

Sitting down and talking to someone on the same level whether they are children or not is a tried and tested method for calming people down and creating a better environment for understanding

Hades · 4 Aug 2020 at 15:47

Dis86 said:
They're not children or mentally handicapped. They're grown and highly qualified adults.

No. At that point in time they are desperately sad parents, emotionally wrecked and about to watch their daughter die. They can't be expected to make rational decisions.

The Running Man · 4 Aug 2020 at 15:48

Trusty said:
Talk to them for longer than a couple of minutes for sure. Sit down with them, make yourself the same level and explain to them what they want to talk to them about, whats going to happen and why they need to do it.

You've got a thread circling around about Britain being a soft touch. About people taking the mick out of the police.

You think the police have all day to sit down and have a chat?

I dont believe the couple really thought that she would have treatment removed that moment either.

Dis86 · 4 Aug 2020 at 15:55

Trusty said:
The father thought the daughter was going to be having her life support taken off imminently, would you go with the police if you thought you might not be there when the doctors took your daughter off it?

That's incorrect. The father was told they'd be ending medical efforts to keep her alive. It was likely to be some time after that, as was the case, that she passed.

Dis86 · 4 Aug 2020 at 15:56

Hades said:
No. At that point in time they are desperately sad parents, emotionally wrecked and about to watch their daughter die. They can't be expected to make rational decisions.

So what use would wasting time explaining it further be then? Might as well talk to a brick wall.

Fubsy · 4 Aug 2020 at 15:56

Bring in the trained negotiator!

People know the police are soft so won't do what they are asked to, or told to, nicely or not. I wouldn't be surprised if some highly qualified people don't look down on the police.

It's a sad story, with a sad ending. If they win then it isn't going to bring their daughter back. Nor is it going to give them those precious final moments back either.

Also, what a job those police officers had; who the hell wants to be called to take the parents of a dying child away from her bedside? It's horrible for everyone all round.

Hades · 4 Aug 2020 at 15:58

Dis86 said:
So what use would wasting time explaining it further be then? Might as well talk to a brick wall.

or... bring in a trained person to talk calmly to them.

NVP · 4 Aug 2020 at 16:02

****stable: "We need to talk to you, outside"

Mum & Dad: "Our 6 year old daughter is about to die, how about you pull up a chair and talk to us here?"

****stable: "**** you" *Judo-chop*

Lady ****stable: "Everyone repeat accusations of biting, we're wearing those damn cameras"

Nazi****stable: "That's not relevant"

Holy ******* **** balls, where's Childish Gambino at, I need to tell him This Is America

FYI - to those in this thread licking blue perineums, the police are there to enforce law or provide advice, you are not compelled to comply with their every whim. I'd happily guesstimate the average police-persons IQ to be slightly below that of the average middle class jobsworth so conversing with them about the situation before complying with requests is perfectly reasonable and mostly beneficial... until you encounter entitled, arrogant, ignorant officers with superiority complexes such as in the video above.

Dis86 · 4 Aug 2020 at 16:17

Hades said:
or... bring in a trained person to talk calmly to them.

Or...listen to the calm polite police officer when they ask you to come for a private chat?