NVIDIA ‘Ampere’ 8nm Graphics Cards

[McGraw]

I enjoyed your post, a lot, but I've been thinking about this more recently and it seems to me it's more like mobile phones - all the "hot" models are around £1k these days, some are well over that. They're very little different to last year's model, maybe the camera got better, maybe the screen got a few more pixels, but people are still buying a new one every year or two. Many/most might be paying on a subscription basis rather than buying outright, so a lot of people clearly do have a big chunk of disposable income.

Graphics cards, and mobile phones, are a luxury, and the market will grow to fleece everyone it can, of everything they can. *Someone* is spending £2k on a new "Galaxy fold". Are they ruining the phone market?

no they’re not ruining the phone market as you can still buy cheaper phones that do the job.

as long as your phone has a decent enough spec to make using it enjoyable, you don’t need to upgrade.

as games improve in detail and resolution, the need for better GPUs continue...unless you pick a year and only ever play games before then.

we are not at the point with pc gaming yet where any upgrades are pointless. 4K/120 and VR for example aren’t easily doable.

nobody minds NVidia putting their prices up each gen but when the gains are minimal and the price rises are substantial, it does skew the market and affects the pc gaming industry.

people not buying as many phones will not really affect anything other than company bottom lines.

 

[Jimmy Weirdarms]

no they’re not ruining the phone market as you can still buy cheaper phones that do the job.

But they don't have that big foldy screen! Or RTX or whatever.

as games improve in detail and resolution, the need for better GPUs continue...unless you pick a year and only ever play games before then.

Is it a *need* to play at 4K/120Hz with everything switched to max? Or is it an absolute luxury? A screen that supports that is itself going to cost a grand, currently (OK< I can see one for 800 quid, but still). It seems odd to object to a GFX card costing that much, after that, and tell others they're ruining everything.

People have funny ideas about the GFX card market. :shrug:

I hope the prices come down and the performance shoots up too, but the infighting and blaming others is just weird.

 

[elroberto]

Nvidia will charge what the market will tolerate. Given the global economic hit everyone's just gone through and with AMD looking like they may have something to bring to the party this gen, it's possible they may price a bit more keenly. We'll find out soon enough.

 

[Deleted User 456458]

Nvidias price will based on:

- yields
- AMD’s competitive state

 

[five8five]

Nvidia will charge what the market will tolerate. Given the global economic hit everyone's just gone through and with AMD looking like they may have something to bring to the party this gen, it's possible they may price a bit more keenly. We'll find out soon enough.

My thoughts are along similar lines but then I think "it's Nvidia". So who knows....

 

[Smiffy-UK]

My thoughts and prayers go out to anyone affected by this thread, R.I.P.

 

[Woodsta888]

Odd to go onto an enthusiasts forum and to berate folk for buying high end gear. Depending how enthusiast you are dictates the budget you append to your favorite pastimes. £1,000's on Hi-Fi, on cars, mountain bikes

If you don't want to pay for the high end stuff, then you ain't enthusiast enough or you just don't earn enough. Discreet gfx cards are for PC enthusiasts. Everyone WANTS a 3080ti but only enthusiasts or folk with larger disposable incomes are what the highest end cards are aimed at. There is something lower down in the product stack to suit the less enthusiastic or smaller incomes.

I want to pay as little as possible of course, but the performance vs cost and relative performance uplift from my current card, will decide whether I'll buy one or not.

To be honest, the only people wanting a 3080ti are those with very expensive monitors with high resolutions and high refresh. They say 90% of people still game at 1080p so a 3080ti is pointless to most PC gamers as current cards can run that easily. Enthusiast resolutions are purchased by keen gamers who want/strive for top IQ and are prepared to pay for it. Of course we all want 4k 120hz, but that resolution and the hardware to drive it requires enthusiast levels of dedicating a budget to suit from your earnings.

I game everyday nearly as my Wife goes to bed earlier than I, so I get my moneys worth from my PC. A decent golf course membership for 1yr is £1000+, therefore it doesn't seem that bad for a high end gfx card that'll last for maybe 2-4 years.

 

[Woodsta888]

My thoughts and prayers go out to anyone affected by this thread, R.I.P.

 

[BS Dave]

Its more like the worlds supply of toilet roll being reduced to two brands and then one of them decides "hey you know cos of the limited supply and closed market conditions we can turn our product into a luxury brand and up the margins..", so they do a big advertising campaign, get some celeb sponsorship and blame the price of paper then start testing the market.

People grumble but slowly adjust, then the price goes up again.

• Rupert and Felicity really take care of their <food cycle> and can easily afford £20/roll so to them its just another luxury in their home, its ok just so long as it doesn't get to £100/roll
• Michael and Kate don't like what's happening but they want the best for their family and find a way to justify the purchase by buying tinned hotdogs instead of decent sausages
• Dave and Jane have to pick leaves from the garden because they can no longer justify such luxury and cant understand why only a few years ago toilet roll cost 10p for 100 sheets

So now these people find themselves on Toilet Roll Matters forum bought together in the fine spirit of humanity on the eve of a new product launch being the social species we are.... And Rupert with his multi roll collection doesn't have a problem with how things are and chimes into the fray with his PoV, and maybe he can sell off some of his collection to help reduce the impact of the predict price inflation as he fills in the pre-order form for his supply.... he's alright that's next year sorted. "hey guys I think its gonna be £30/roll this time, what do you think? I'm gonna order 2 packs and really looking forward to the new print pattern with extra comfort, its not cheap to add those things so I'm ok I'm just gonna pre-order...."

"Hey, Rupert you do realise toilet roll shouldn't be a luxury item, its just a roll of paper for wiping stuff?"
"How do you justify spending £30/roll!"
"I refuse to pay that much, I'm going green this time..."
"you do realise they are just using marketing as a means to charge more?"
"join the anti-competitive loo roll revolution comrade"
all the way down to....
"this guy is a <insert your school playground wording here>..."

So this continues for a bit with various levels of responses ranging from indifference, humour, annoyance, insulting all the way to down right nasty. Meanwhile the forum admins are getting grumpy too and have better things to do than sort through the crap.

There are a number of observations you can make at this point but I'd suggest it comes down to these:
1. People can spend their money as they choose, but no one likes a tit
2. Short-sightedness is not a great thing and more common as you get older
3. If you stick to the facts, or point at the issue not the person you're on much better ground for a sensible discussion
4. People that make it personal invite critism in return
5. Some people do go too far in either end of the spectrum of comments

Great post. I like point 1 especially. If you're loaded don't rub it in people faces.

Also the more expensive GFX cards are, the more exclusive they'll get, and the less units they'll sell. So all those new features will be used by an increasingly small number of people. It's not too big of a jump to see studios not coding for features only 1% of your audience has, so progress slows down/stops.

 

[benjii]

To be honest, the only people wanting a 3080ti are those with very expensive monitors with high resolutions and high refresh. They say 90% of people still game at 1080p so a 3080ti is pointless to most PC gamers as current cards can run that easily. Enthusiast resolutions are purchased by keen gamers who want/strive for top IQ and are prepared to pay for it. Of course we all want 4k 120hz, but that resolution and the hardware to drive it requires enthusiast levels of dedicating a budget to suit from your earnings.

The Steam hardware survey is a great place to get a general idea of the gamers market. For primary display resoultions: 65% 1080, 6% 1440 and 2% 4k. With almost 10% gaming at 1366x768, it's a stark reminder of how much the enthusiast users on this forum are the 1%.

My general philosophy for buying hardware is just do whatever makes you happy, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

 

[Jay85]

If everyone is so bothered about this pricing malarky then just wait till there's an offer or deal, they always drop in price or even better look at the secondhand market after a few months of release. Someone will have bought one and don't like it and put it up for sale. No ones forcing anyone to buy them at release prices or even at rrp, if you're smart then you'll spend some time to shop around and look about the market. I am in no way condoning the pricing strategies of these big companies as they are ridiculous by all means. I didn't buy my 2080 waterblock card on release but instead shopped around, looking at markets etc and stomped on a massive deal for what is essentially a new card at half the price with its warranty intact and unregistered!

 

[Woodsta888]

The Steam hardware survey is a great place to get a general idea of the gamers market. For primary display resoultions: 65% 1080, 6% 1440 and 2% 4k. With almost 10% gaming at 1366x768, it's a stark reminder of how much the enthusiast users on this forum are the 1%.

My general philosophy for buying hardware is just do whatever makes you happy, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

Exactly mate.

To be honest, for enthusiasts who want very high end, they'll be looking at £1500-£2500 just for a screen and a gfx card these days. That's without the rest of the PC

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

Odd to go onto an enthusiasts forum and to berate folk for buying high end gear. Depending how enthusiast you are dictates the budget you append to your favorite pastimes. £1,000's on Hi-Fi, on cars, mountain bikes

If you don't want to pay for the high end stuff, then you ain't enthusiast enough or you just don't earn enough. Discreet gfx cards are for PC enthusiasts. Everyone WANTS a 3080ti but only enthusiasts or folk with larger disposable incomes are what the highest end cards are aimed at. There is something lower down in the product stack to suit the less enthusiastic or smaller incomes.

I want to pay as little as possible of course, but the performance vs cost and relative performance uplift from my current card, will decide whether I'll buy one or not.

To be honest, the only people wanting a 3080ti are those with very expensive monitors with high resolutions and high refresh. They say 90% of people still game at 1080p so a 3080ti is pointless to most PC gamers as current cards can run that easily. Enthusiast resolutions are purchased by keen gamers who want/strive for top IQ and are prepared to pay for it. Of course we all want 4k 120hz, but that resolution and the hardware to drive it requires enthusiast levels of dedicating a budget to suit from your earnings.

I game everyday nearly as my Wife goes to bed earlier than I, so I get my moneys worth from my PC. A decent golf course membership for 1yr is £1000+, therefore it doesn't seem that bad for a high end gfx card that'll last for maybe 2-4 years.

That's exactly how I justify my onlyfans subscriptions. If you are not throwing money around you are not an enthusiast

 

[Smiffy-UK]

My general philosophy for buying hardware is just do whatever makes you happy, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

Exactly mate! Nothing more, nothing less than the nail on the head you Janner you!

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

The Steam hardware survey is a great place to get a general idea of the gamers market. For primary display resoultions: 65% 1080, 6% 1440 and 2% 4k. With almost 10% gaming at 1366x768, it's a stark reminder of how much the enthusiast users on this forum are the 1%.

My general philosophy for buying hardware is just do whatever makes you happy, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

But why are those numbers so low?

How long has 1440p and 4k monitors been around yet the up take is so low.

How is it that most people's mobile phones and TVs are a higher resolution than most people desktop monitors? (not even the wider market just people who own a desktop and either a phone or TV)

Seems like PC gaming is being left behind. At this rate a majority of people will have 8k TVs before 1440p becomes the defacto standard on PC.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Odd to go onto an enthusiasts forum and to berate folk for buying high end gear. Depending how enthusiast you are dictates the budget you append to your favorite pastimes. £1,000's on Hi-Fi, on cars, mountain bikes

The examples you've listed will outlast any gpu and retain their value better. Also I have seen mountain bikers complain about bike pricing. Especially since some of the cost more that a motorbike.

 

[Doobedoo]

You don’t need to be loaded to afford a 2080ti lol now a Ferrari is a different matter.

I honestly could not care how much people want to pay for a 2/3080ti I would encourage nvidia to whack the prices up and let’s those willing to take it, take it. Just leave the rest of the stack at normal prices so that normal people can buy them. Best of both worlds .

 

[McGraw]

I’m a 70 series buyer, I just want this gen to bring 2080ti performance at the 3070 price point which in turn I expect to have some price creep. Don’t think this super high luxury market, just the mid end of the current pc gaming market.

I do what makes me happy but my principles have forced me to sit on a card I would liked to have upgraded by now

 

[McGraw]

The examples you've listed will outlast any gpu and retain their value better. Also I have seen mountain bikers complain about bike pricing. Especially since some of the cost more that a motorbike.

This is the thrust of things really and it is how society is going as a whole (and always has done). The rich get richer, the poor get poorer.

the people in the middle who are ok money wise but do have to make decisions about what they spend, see the prices of things they want to buy go up and up as the rich people swallow up the stock at higher prices.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Nvidias price will based on:

- yields
- AMD’s competitive state

IMO you can probably remove the first part.
Let’s face it, a card is made of not much plastic and some silicon.
The expensive bits will be to design it and create the process to manufacture.

For all of the above, my expectation is that pricing are driven purely by competition and supply and demand.