Effects of electric cars on automotive industry

jamoor · 20 Aug 2020 at 12:07

Jez said:
I hope that these camera based driver monitoring systems are rather better than the sensor and behavioral based systems found in Mercs for around a decade (Attention Assist). That system is so useless, that you are forced to turn it off, with it constantly telling you that you are drowsy and to get a coffee. I'd dread anything important being driven by a system as these behave.

Look up cadillac super cruise apparently it’s amazing

jamoor · 20 Aug 2020 at 12:08

jpaul said:
camera location seems to be problematic I'd read the bmw instructions say the pro's cockpit camera can be obscured by the steering wheel,
you know .... those people you sometimes see peering through the wheel.

[another video corroborates that bmw system does not track where eyes are looking, just head orientation, and eye open/closed ]

lol this doesn’t surprise me
They couldn’t even design the steering wheel/instrument cluster correctly on the e90 so you could see the entire binnacle while driving.

[TW]Fox · 20 Aug 2020 at 12:19

jamoor said:
Is it the same thing as Cadillac super cruise?

It looks very similar but I have not used super cruise.

Jez · 20 Aug 2020 at 12:22

jamoor said:
Look up cadillac super cruise apparently it’s amazing

This system looks the same as the BMW and Mercedes systems to me? Distronic plus with active steer assist?

jamoor · 20 Aug 2020 at 12:25

Jez said:
This system looks the same as the BMW and Mercedes systems to me? Distronic plus with active steer assist?

Super cruise is full hands free driving. You set it and you never touch the wheel unless it asks you to.

instead of touching the wheel it watches you to make sure you’re paying attention distronic seems different.

Jez · 20 Aug 2020 at 12:31

jamoor said:
Super cruise is full hands free driving. You set it and you never touch the wheel unless it asks you to.

instead of touching the wheel it watches you to make sure you’re paying attention distronic seems different.

So is the Mercedes system, distronic plus is radar distance control down to 0mph, and then active steer assist keeps the car within lane, although it only keeps within lanes on highways. I didnt see much difference with the Caddy system?

Either way, i would be quite nervous to use either tbh. Radar distance control is very good, but the steering on a highway isnt a chore at all? Unless i can literally pay no attention at all and just read my phone instead, i am not sure that steering being automated on a highway is really of much benefit?

jamoor · 20 Aug 2020 at 12:35

Jez said:
So is the Mercedes system, distronic plus is radar distance control down to 0mph, and then active steer assist keeps the car within lane, although it only keeps within lanes on highways. I didnt see much difference with the Caddy system?

Either way, i would be quite nervous to use either tbh. Radar distance control is very good, but the steering on a highway isnt a chore at all? Unless i can literally pay no attention at all and just read my phone instead, i am not sure that steering being automated on a highway is really of much benefit?

Do you have a link or video to this system?

Jez · 20 Aug 2020 at 12:49

jamoor said:
Do you have a link or video to this system?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAjDaA9gLNk

Distronic Plus (and 2) is about 15 years old and goes with that. Its not a new system though so perhaps the new ones are somehow better. This steers and adjusts speed for you, while of course making sure you are actually still "in control".

I am not totally sure how the steering part of it is really of benefit though as i mentioned?

[TW]Fox · 20 Aug 2020 at 12:59

jamoor said:
Super cruise is full hands free driving. You set it and you never touch the wheel unless it asks you to.

Like BMW driver assistance professional then.

jpaul · 20 Aug 2020 at 13:15

That's the theory - one I read earlier https://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that...ended-traffic-jam-assistant-needs-supervision

On both I-278 and the gently curving Prospect Expressway, the system sometimes worked without a hitch. I set my cruising speed and following distance via bright metal controls on the steering wheel. The BMW governed itself accordingly, controlling its own acceleration, braking, and steering during hands-free intervals of roughly 30 to 50 seconds. But my Assistant was also regularly flummoxed by various roadway situations. Those included the dreaded “ping pong” effect, where sensors and controls struggle to keep the car confidently centered in its lane. On dead-straight sections of freeway, the BMW’s steering wheel kept making continuous, intrusive left-right corrections, like a nervous Driver’s Ed student who doesn’t quite get the concept.

The system also regularly shut itself down, even in the stop-and-go conditions for which it’s supposed to be programmed. And those “hand-backs,” where the driver is meant to retake control, were sometimes vague or tardy, with alerts limited to small symbols and green, yellow and red telltales on the instrument panel. One feature I didn’t have the guts to test, at least not in New York: If drivers ignore repeated warnings to get back in the loop, the X7 will brake itself to a safe stop, in case the pilot is incapacitated or asleep

jamoor · 20 Aug 2020 at 13:23

[TW]Fox said:
Like BMW driver assistance professional then.

That only works upto 60km/h?
It may be a Cadillac exclusive feature as I think they are all mobileye systems.

jamoor · 20 Aug 2020 at 13:24

Jez said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAjDaA9gLNk

Distronic Plus (and 2) is about 15 years old and goes with that. Its not a new system though so perhaps the new ones are somehow better. This steers and adjusts speed for you, while of course making sure you are actually still "in control".

I am not totally sure how the steering part of it is really of benefit though as i mentioned?

This isn’t it. Have you driven a car with auto steer? It’s super beneficial not to have to do anything when driving on a motorway

Jez · 20 Aug 2020 at 13:28

jamoor said:
This isn’t it. Have you driven a car with auto steer? It’s super beneficial not to have to do anything when driving on a motorway

I guess this is something i would need to experience for myself. I am all for gadgets, radar cruise is fantastic for example, we all get annoyed with people not maintaining speed. Steering is such a non event though, and given that you need to concentrate even with an active system, i cant see its use, speaking without experience of course.

Entai · 20 Aug 2020 at 13:44

jamoor said:
Super cruise is full hands free driving. You set it and you never touch the wheel unless it asks you to.

instead of touching the wheel it watches you to make sure you’re paying attention distronic seems different.

So currently completely and utterly illegal to use on public roads in the UK .

Possibly maybe legalised next spring, but noting certain.

The Department for Transport (DfT) has issued a call for evidence into automated lane keeping systems (ALKS).

The call for evidence will also look at whether ALKS-enabled cars should be classed as automated, meaning the technology provider rather than the driver would be responsible for safety while the system is engaged.

Which to me means that almost no manufacturer will allow the systems to be used on UK roads, as they will not want to be liable for anything.

Jonnycoupe · 20 Aug 2020 at 14:19

I quite like the steer assist on motorways just lets you relax a little as offers a helping hand for lane centring and helpful for lane change collision avoidance, when you go to change and close to a car On blind spot it will counter the steer and alert you: fundamentally you are incontrol of the car. It’s a pain on sweeping roads and lanes as it tends to fight you.

[TW]Fox · 20 Aug 2020 at 14:24

jamoor said:
That only works upto 60km/h?

It works up to 210kmh.

I share Jez point on self steering. I have driven quite significant distances with both the Mercedes and BMW system, the adaptive distance stuff is game changing, the steering side of it feels very much like a pointless gimmick.

jamoor · 20 Aug 2020 at 14:36

[TW]Fox said:
It works up to 210kmh.

I share Jez point on self steering. I have driven quite significant distances with both the Mercedes and BMW system, the adaptive distance stuff is game changing, the steering side of it feels very much like a pointless gimmick.

Do you have a link to how it works?

Oh and I’m not sure if LKA is the same as autosteering?

Autosteering means you don’t steer
LKA helps you keep it in the lane? LKA is a gimmick but auto steer is as revolutionary as radar cruise.

you can also use it on a roads and B roads if it’s good enough.

Nasher · 20 Aug 2020 at 14:51

Jonnycoupe said:
yeah cos a 800V Porsche Taycan has the exact same battery requirements as a single motor air cooled Nissan Leaf.

Give it a rest. What’s the Masher logic of the numerous 4 cylinder 2.0 engine variants driving around then.

Leave basic physics out this thread please.

A battery is a battery lol. They could all be exactly the same size and shape if they wanted.

There is no genuine reason for all having different connectors either. It's just a plug.

Jonnycoupe · 20 Aug 2020 at 14:55

Apart from the fundamental of voltage and capacity...

a Taycan demanding 761PS at 25% SoC changes the landscape somewhat if you think you can put the same battery in a car with a target price of a 1/3 of the Porsche.

Masher DoD is 100% : make you your own initialisms.

Jonnycoupe · 20 Aug 2020 at 14:57

jamoor said:
Do you have a link to how it works?

Oh and I’m not sure if LKA is the same as autosteering?

Autosteering means you don’t steer
LKA helps you keep it in the lane? LKA is a gimmick but auto steer is as revolutionary as radar cruise.

you can also use it on a roads and B roads if it’s good enough.

sorry, are you championing the benefits of a system you haven’t actually used?