EV general discussion
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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If we do, then great. And if we do then I'd not be buying a petrol engined car irrespective of the ban. Which goes back to my previous point of why must we legislate all the time?
If the 2029 BMW 5 Series looks like a 5 Series, has 500 mile real world range, etc etc then I won't need the petrol model banning to convince me to move and neither will most other people. We'd move anyway, without needing a law that unfairly impacts the few for whom EV is never, ever going to work (I have a garage and can easily park and charge in it, but others live with allocated parking, etc etc?).
Hiring cars is going to be a nice little earner though, at the moment you pay a charge for not returning the car full but filling with fuel at the airport is so quick and easy you never pay it... I can't see myself charging an airport rental up before returning it
If the 2029 BMW 5 Series looks like a 5 Series, has 500 mile real world range, etc etc then I won't need the petrol model banning to convince me to move and neither will most other people. We'd move anyway, without needing a law that unfairly impacts the few for whom EV is never, ever going to work (I have a garage and can easily park and charge in it, but others live with allocated parking, etc etc?).
Hiring cars is going to be a nice little earner though, at the moment you pay a charge for not returning the car full but filling with fuel at the airport is so quick and easy you never pay it... I can't see myself charging an airport rental up before returning it
Blame America.
Realistically in this Country I think 300-350 miles range is enough for 99% of people. The other 1% just need a reliable and fast charging network to call upon, a few times a year.
Soldato
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expensive and heavy to put both diesel after-treatment and PHEV systems. We will see a bigger push for efficient petrol now, lambda 1, lean burn etc.
Also horrible for short bursts of power with limited warmup. Some of the larger cars i know it’s an option though.
I agree. I think bigger numbers would help win over some of the skeptics. I don’t think 500 miles will be unattainable.
The only one I can think of is is the Mercedes E300de.
In theory it sounds ideal - do 200 miles at 55mpg with low CO2 emissions. Arrive at city destination, electric motor kicks in on the Motorway sliproad and diesel engine shuts down. Complete journey and a few days local running purely on electric power with no tailpipe emissions.
I like the 545e and I'm tempted but a 3 litre turbo petrol doing 35mpg max on the Motorway doesn't seem particularly environmentally friendly does it
I ended up in a 540i as a rental a few years back for a trip to Scandinavia and that hurt at the pumps
Soldato
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There does need to be a balance between range and lugging hulking great battery packs for no benefit around for 90% of the time though. If they can increase range under existing battery sizes/weights fair enough but just going bigger and bigger batteries just to make people who visit their Auntie Jean in Glasgow twice a year more comfortable isn't the way we should be going 
Fast and reliable charging would negate this obsession with range to a degree, currently bar Tesla it's not there yet.
Fast and reliable charging would negate this obsession with range to a degree, currently bar Tesla it's not there yet.
Reminds me of something I saw recently, in the late 70's American car manufacturers were expecting tighter emission controls so had started making plans for this which included electric cars, however when Reagan was elected any chance of those tighter controls evaporated and the car manufacturers carried on with the old ways.
Makes you wonder where we could have been now.
the economics of the plugin hybrid are also questionable with declining battery prices, versus bev, given all the additional equipment (total weight greater too?)
Leaf lead engineer had said a year ago that bev should be cheaper than phev, and suggested some degree of price fixing (keep engine plants running?)
The october used ev prices had also shown some (edit: USED) ev price stagnation versus ICE(petrol), so, although the PCP customer, may not care, as a private buyer,
I'd be concerned at their potential longer term depreciation, with higher range bev's arriving, not to mention higher maintenance costs on phev's too.
(wonder how oil change is scheduled, if you haven't used engine much)
Leaf lead engineer had said a year ago that bev should be cheaper than phev, and suggested some degree of price fixing (keep engine plants running?)
The october used ev prices had also shown some (edit: USED) ev price stagnation versus ICE(petrol), so, although the PCP customer, may not care, as a private buyer,
I'd be concerned at their potential longer term depreciation, with higher range bev's arriving, not to mention higher maintenance costs on phev's too.
(wonder how oil change is scheduled, if you haven't used engine much)
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Don't know about other models, but my Leaf has gone through painful depreciation this year. The moment lockdown happened, it lost £2,500 of value and has only recovered £1,000 of that since. That maybe doesn't sound too crazy, but it was bought for £8,200 back in December 2017, and was still worth £7,500 a year ago. So relatively speaking, a definite "ouch", especially given it would have been sold by then if the new car hadn't been delayed
Only matters if you’re selling it. If not, sit tight and it will bounce back.Don't know about other models, but my Leaf has gone through painful depreciation this year. The moment lockdown happened, it lost £2,500 of value and has only recovered £1,000 of that since. That maybe doesn't sound too crazy, but it was bought for £8,200 back in December 2017, and was still worth £7,500 a year ago. So relatively speaking, a definite "ouch", especially given it would have been sold by then if the new car hadn't been delayed
Even under the new proposals, hybrids are going to be allowed to be sold until 2035 anyway. So really, the real ICE ban doesn't kick in for another 15 years, which ought to be more than long enough for properly viable alternatives to be available in all classes.
Soldato
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It's going to take way longer than 10-15 years for them to implement a charging infrastructure that affords those of us who are not able to have a charge point fitted on their property the ability to charge overnight or when parked on the street.
It’s growing with the number of cars on the roads. By the end of next year every McDonalds will have at least 4 charging points, every Tesco Extra will have at least 3 charging points and every Lidl will have a 50kW fast charger. So, it’s happening. And Tesco and McDonalds are free. So don’t let what you think of as a lack of charge points be a block to getting a BEV.
Really, you only need to constantly top up, so 30 minutes gets you 3.5kW on most chargers and that’s 15 miles of range. 30 minutes on a mid-tier 50kW charger gets 23kW or 130 miles and 30 minutes on a Supercharger type charger gets you 70kW which is a full charge on most BEVs.
I do think the tax breaks are structured badly though. £350 per charge point is about 25% of the price of installing a 3-phase 22kW charger but it’s only 4% of the price to install a 50kW DC charger and that’s not anything like enough of an incentive. I can write off the full cost of a car in 1 year. Let me do the same with the charger at least.
I believe it will have to have a plug. So no pure hybrid or mild hybrids.
The problem with forcing this approach rather than it happening naturally is that for everyone who can't (or won't) plug such a vehicle in, all that's actually being achieved is making people buy under powered petrol cars with a lump of mostly useless battery to cart around.