EV general discussion

Haggisman said:
That's what I thought, e.g. Run battery down to 10%, turn on petrol engine for 20 mins to charge up to 100%, repeat. Maybe not as efficient as running a petrol engine for an hour at constant speed on the motorway, but with a bigger battery the petrol engine would be able to run for longer to charge it, plus it would only need to be used on longer journeys outside of the EV range
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It’s only charge sustain it doesn’t fill the battery back up, that would be mental.
 
WJA96 said:
Personally, I’d have preferred to see a Diesel engine rather than petrol just for the torque and ICE efficiency benefits.
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Too heavy, expensive, slow warm up and complicated aftertreatment with a urea tank to package. And very hard to mask its noise for a backup systems. No thanks
 
Haggisman said:
Depends how you're driving surely? Constant 70mph then sure, but start stop or 30mph around town then it should be able to
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This, the i3 Rex can sustain the battery when its traveling at about 60-65 on the motorway but if the battery is flat and you go up hill for a sustained period your speed will drop. However in stop start traffic it will be able to recharge the battery. That’s why all the yanks recoded their cars to the EU spec so they could turn the Rex on at 70% instead of when it’s nearly flat.

Just like a PHEV you need to know how to use a REX to get the most out of it. If your going past the range of the battery you need to end the journey on zero battery to get the most of out of it so ‘recharging the battery’ is utterly pointless and just costs you money.

The Rex is normally two things, a get out of jail free card for when you run out unexpectedly or something to utilise when you plan long journeys. If you know your going on a long journey you want to kick the Rex in as soon as you can and then turn it off once your within battery range of your destination. Because of the way the Rex works battery power will continue to drop at motorway speeds but it will be a slow trickle. The trick is to turn the Rex of at exactly the right time so you get back to your at the battery gets to 6% or whatever the minimum is for the Rex to kick in again.

The main reason they didn’t take off is that it’s now just cheaper to put enough battery range in the car to cover all but the longest journeys which people seldom do in generally. The batteries also recharge fast enough not to make those long trips a complete PITA. Most people would trade never having to go to a fuel pump again for having to visit a rapid charger 3-5 times a year. Most people that bought the Rex version rarely if ever used it.

The only real issue is now only the TCO doesn’t work on smaller cheaper cars, supply of vehicles and people without a suitable charging location. The tech itself is fine in the main for the vast majority of people.
 
WJA96 said:
As for the Kona, it will get happily spin up the fronts on ice. I think that’s not unique to the Kona though. The throttle pedal is increasing desensitised from Sport, through Comfort to Eco and Eco+. So bad drivers with heavy right feet will be able to spin up the wheels if the want to. I just happen to choose not to.
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kona icy braking thread - so don't use highest regen level when its icy, since kona can break traction, which I think we guessed as a general ev issue (but, also, doesn't seem to engage ABS)
There is actually a small warning in the Cdn. manual (page 5-118) in the winter driving section which is kind of contradictory "...During deceleration , use the paddle shifter (left side lever) to increase regenerative braking, but avoid adjusting it to level 3 (steering may be difficult). Sudden brake application on snowy or icy roads may cause the vehicle to skid."
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ironically seems tesla removed m3 lowest regen setting in new cars https://electrek.co/2020/10/27/tesla-removes-regenerative-braking-strenght-option-new-cars/
 
jpaul said:
kona icy braking thread - so don't use highest regen level when its icy, since kona can break traction, which I think we guessed as a general ev issue (but, also, doesn't seem to engage ABS)

ironically seems tesla removed m3 lowest regen setting in new cars https://electrek.co/2020/10/27/tesla-removes-regenerative-braking-strenght-option-new-cars/
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Thats an interesting read. I don’t see how it could engage ABS as the car isn’t using the brakes - you’d need to somehow put the car into neutral or freewheel until it regained traction. I suspect that winter tyres might be more of a requirement in this case than they otherwise might be.

Thanks for raising this.
 
WJA96 said:
I can’t find anything showing private sales numbers that high. I can find plenty of editorial that says car hire companies and businesses are not replacing cars because there is no demand in those sectors. And that’s depressing the fleet/business share of the market. But there’s no point in falling out over it. And, as looks like we’re getting a no-deal Brexit I’m still watching those new car prices!
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https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/
 
Minstadave said:
I got my Ipace through NHS fleet a couple of months back. What do you want to know?

NHS fleet offers wall chargers with the lease, they're partly subsidised by the Government scheme and it adds about £3 a month to the lease cost (although it was free with Audis iirc).
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Ah interesting about the wall charger being included in a lease also.

It is the first time we are looking at doing this sort of scheme, is it best to call up rather online in order to obtain latest and best prices?

Ideally we would want a lease at around £200 all in but it takes ages and seems you need to chose the correct colour combinations as it makes such a difference to the price... And the solid colours don't necessarily come in at the cheapest options.

Out of interest was yours through Knowles?
 
GinG said:
Ah interesting about the wall charger being included in a lease also.

It is the first time we are looking at doing this sort of scheme, is it best to call up rather online in order to obtain latest and best prices?

Ideally we would want a lease at around £200 all in but it takes ages and seems you need to chose the correct colour combinations as it makes such a difference to the price... And the solid colours don't necessarily come in at the cheapest options.

Out of interest was yours through Knowles?
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I just ordered it through the NHS Fleet website. Their special offers were the cheapest over ordering custom spec, you could choose from a handful of colours. Once I ordered it was supplied by Arval I think.
 
So Lucid announced their Air lineup in September, started accepting deposits with cars becoming available from mid-late next year.
https://www.lucidmotors.com/

They are promising to deliver a lot of new tech, longer range and impressive performance.

What are your thoughts - will they come though or fail?
 
SDK^ said:
So Lucid announced their Air lineup in September, started accepting deposits with cars becoming available from mid-late next year.
https://www.lucidmotors.com/

They are promising to deliver a lot of new tech, longer range and impressive performance.

What are your thoughts - will they come though or fail?
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I don’t see why they shouldn’t succeed. Their model range, pricing and specs almost identically matched to the Tesla Model S. The car looks pretty fresh compared to the Model S and if they can take a chunk of the people who are coming to the end of their Model S leases or who are looking to trade in Model S’s then they may not need masses of sales to get a foothold in the market. Once they are established at all, then they can grow. Or not. If the product is good enough, they’ll prosper. If not, they’ll fail. I think Tesla get away with murder because they were the first. The early adopters (the Electric Jebus disciples) have accepted a lot of nonsense in the past (and still put up with some quite shoddy build quality for the money). If Lucid can build the cars properly and treat US consumers the way they expect to be treated, then they can do really well.
 
My only concern with these 'start-ups' is they do have a lot to learn and quickly, we saw it with energy providers lots of small companies get big and then suddenly can't scale to handle it - Tesla are still having this issue, they get them out the factory/car park doors as quick as possible and triage the issues when the customer has them.

Heck even Polestar which can lean on massive funding and Volvos well established lessons log and factories etc still make huge mistakes.
 
Isn’t Tesla’s main problem that it took its initial technology staff from Lotus? So they’re fast, look great but the build quality...
 
WJA96 said:
Isn’t Tesla’s main problem that it took its initial technology staff from Lotus? So they’re fast, look great but the build quality...
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I haven't got a clue if I'm honest... but the way I see it is their scale went massively up and they can't keep up with the demand so the UK Workshops were dealing primarily with things such as adjusting door handles...
 
WJA96 said:
Isn’t Tesla’s main problem that it took its initial technology staff from Lotus? So they’re fast, look great but the build quality...
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No, the chassis was adapted from Lotus then loads of people from all over with the typical headhunting - Lucid CTO & CEO Peter Rawlinson is ex Tesla too.
 
WJA96 said:
I don’t see why they shouldn’t succeed. Their model range, pricing and specs almost identically matched to the Tesla Model S. The car looks pretty fresh compared to the Model S and if they can take a chunk of the people who are coming to the end of their Model S leases or who are looking to trade in Model S’s then they may not need masses of sales to get a foothold in the market. Once they are established at all, then they can grow. Or not. If the product is good enough, they’ll prosper. If not, they’ll fail. I think Tesla get away with murder because they were the first. The early adopters (the Electric Jebus disciples) have accepted a lot of nonsense in the past (and still put up with some quite shoddy build quality for the money). If Lucid can build the cars properly and treat US consumers the way they expect to be treated, then they can do really well.
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They are certainly following the Tesla business model that's for sure, start expensive and work down from there. The issue they have is that they are not the only players in town like Tesla were back in the day and my concern is really the long term viability of the company. We saw how difficult it was for Tesla and they only really started making money well into after the Model 3 came out and they don't have the charging network USP either.

I expect they'll launch, sell quite a few of these to some very rich people but as that is the extent of the market, I don't see them delivering these in any significant volume. Your Bill Gates of this world are buying Porsche Taycans other Model S' because its a far more luxurious car and YouTubers buy the S for clicks. Tesla has scaled back its S/X production and hacked a big chunk of the price recently. I think their technology will end up being bought out by an existing firm, I suppose that would be considered a success.
 
Surely they’ve reduced the prices and volumes on the S and X because they’re basically old-hat now? The Plaid will be the last Hurrah! for Model S and possibly X and then they’ll be replaced. Hence my point about capturing the Model S buyers. The USA market seems to run on leases/PCP so as long as the residuals/GFVs are good, the payments will be low and the cars will sell. But if the perceived quality and aftersales service is poor, they’ll fail I think. I see it as when the new E class comes out for 12-18 months it’s the best executive car on the market and then the new 5-series comes out and it’s a bit better until the new A6 launches and it’s a bit better again. They’re taking orders now for launch cars to be on the road at roughly the same time as the Model S Plaid becomes physically available. If the Lucid has been benchmarked properly then it should wipe the floor with the Model S. If it doesn’t, Lucid are doomed.
 
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