EV general discussion

WJA96 said:
Apparently Lucid are funded by the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia. To the tune of $1 billion. I doubt they got all that money in one hit but it would imply that their pockets won’t run out for at least a little while. And if the cars sell in any kind of numbers an IPO could see that again much raised and more.
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$1b is literally nothing for a car firm though, Tesla used to burn through that in less than a qtr back in the day.
 
I don't really get the deal with Lucid, it's just another EV with no stand out specs, value or design from what i can see?

If i want to spend that kind of cash with a 'start up' i'd go Tesla as they've got the whole global charging infrastructure behind them which is a massive advantage, otherwise may as well go for something from a legacy automaker as at least you've got more of a chance of long term support if things don't work out which is inevitable for some of these new players.
 
sovietspybob said:
I don't really get the deal with Lucid, it's just another EV with no stand out specs, value or design from what i can see?

If i want to spend that kind of cash with a 'start up' i'd go Tesla as they've got the whole global charging infrastructure behind them which is a massive advantage, otherwise may as well go for something from a legacy automaker as at least you've got more of a chance of long term support if things don't work out which is inevitable for some of these new players.
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At each of the three price points it is (was) slightly cheaper, faster and has longer range than the equivalent Model S. On the day Lucid announced their line-up, Tesla dropped the price on the entry level Model S to the same as the base Lucid price. So they are having a disruptive effect on the market right now.

When a new player comes into the market they have to have an advantage - that might be a new technology, it might be a lower price, it could be range. A differentiator. And you may well be correct, they may not be able to differentiate themselves adequately from Tesla to gain adequate market share. But that doesn't mean they won't have an impact on the market.

As for Legacy Manufacturer support - they kill off brands and brands go bust all the time. It's a myth that there is anything other than the legal minimum of 10 years parts supply. And from what I've seen so far, most of the Legacy Brands are still a fair way behind Tesla. Hyundai/Kia might well leapfrog Tesla with the Ioniq sub-brand but they might just as easily not. Polestar seems to be a good effort, but it's only winning on the fact that it's sort of a Volvo. It's nowhere near as good as Tesla in terms of powertrain. Mercedes and VAG are fairly laughable at the moment, and that could change if they decide to get their backsides in gear. Right now, I think the smart money is on Tesla to do well long term and maybe Lucid cabn too. I certainly wouldn't write them off until we see what the product is actually like. If it's really well made and they have really good customer service then they will take customers away from Tesla and that will (hopefully) spur Tesla to improve their quality and aftersales support.

All in all, I wish Lucid well.
 
sovietspybob said:
I don't really get the deal with Lucid, it's just another EV with no stand out specs, value or design from what i can see?

If i want to spend that kind of cash with a 'start up' i'd go Tesla as they've got the whole global charging infrastructure behind them which is a massive advantage, otherwise may as well go for something from a legacy automaker as at least you've got more of a chance of long term support if things don't work out which is inevitable for some of these new players.
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Tbh, some talk about legacy car manufacturers shutting up shop but I personally think not all of these new EV companies will survive either. Even Tesla is way behind legacy manufacturers in some ways but they have great tech, infrastructure, mind share/a cult following and also a great platform. As for some of the others, including lucid, I'm not so sure.
One of the problems is they simply lack the experience of building good cars. Tesla will be learning from their M3 and should come out with something much better (all round, build quality, drive etc) and they will need to.



Savageese reviews I've always liked. Here's his thoughts on the current M3.
(3) Tesla Model 3 Performance | The Prima Donna - YouTube
 
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I think the new Ford Mustang Mach-E misses the mark. I prefer the Tesla Model Y and Polestar 2; both are cheaper, faster, look better and have more equipment.

 
SDK^ said:
I think the new Ford Mustang Mach-E misses the mark. I prefer the Tesla Model Y and Polestar 2; both are cheaper, faster, look better and have more equipment.
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in the usa seems Mach E is cheaper, plus, something about TY federal subsidy having run out, they also have high 60K/yr vehicle capacity, so sounds as though it may have a sweet spot there, and EU is disadvantaged, googles telling me it coming from Mexico too.

edit: video I saw was from $35K
 
WJA96 said:
Apparently Lucid are funded by the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia. To the tune of $1 billion. I doubt they got all that money in one hit but it would imply that their pockets won’t run out for at least a little while. And if the cars sell in any kind of numbers an IPO could see that again much raised and more.

As for the whole ICE-Hybrid-EV transition, it’s supposedly happening in the UK in 2030. But it could get delayed. I rather doubt it though as the UK government will want to do something with their £500M battery factory in Coventry when it opens and Geely have supposedly put up another £320M for a production facility solely for EVs. The great thing about this game is you can see who’s right at some point. Interesting times!
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$1 bil is pretty light if they are really planning on scaling up quickly. Interesting that the Saudis are behind it. The EV field looks like its getting crowded quickly. I doubt most will survive 5 years.
 
jpaul said:
in the usa seems Mach E is cheaper, plus, something about TY federal subsidy having run out, they also have high 60K/yr vehicle capacity, so sounds as though it may have a sweet spot there, and EU is disadvantaged, googles telling me it coming from Mexico too.

edit: video I saw was from $35K
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Don’t forget us prices are quoted without taxes and fees. U.K. prices are quoted all in, if the cars coming from outside the EU it will have a 10% tariff applied.
 
I like the look of the Mach E, but as with all competitors it needs to be 10%+ cheaper than the equivalent Tesla. I don't see why you'd get one over a Model Y (once they're both available...).
 
usa price compare - interesting slant
https://insideevs.com/news/456138/ford-mustang-mache-range-price-compared-bevs/
leaf+mustang 'adjacent' (edit : scrub that, I had thought their prices were closer)


50722322733_66af0fc4a2_o_d.jpg
 
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Jonnycoupe said:
The battery plant in Coventry is more of a research plant. It’s the large plan in Blyth in the north east with the £2.6bn Gigafactory where we might start seeing the ball rolling although the people behind it have a bit of a wobbly history.
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how come the gov just just build it's own nationalized company then sell it off for a profit later?
EU competition laws?

I mean from the small google search I did the company building the blyth plant raised 30 mil, they are going to get 1bil from the gov... WTF? then these guys will do an IPO in a years time and get stupid profits.... even if it's running at a loss cos "future"
until then the gov will probably bail them out cos "too big to fail"

doesn't seem right. are they tory donors or what.

can I get some of that free money too start a company too
 
Out of interest I'd like to see what margins the different manufacturers make on each EV if any! I know that's one thing Tesla have always been pushing and are rapidly approaching 30% on some models (sold in China I believe) which will be huge for them as they ramp up production.
 
bimbleuk said:
Out of interest I'd like to see what margins the different manufacturers make on each EV if any! I know that's one thing Tesla have always been pushing and are rapidly approaching 30% on some models (sold in China I believe) which will be huge for them as they ramp up production.
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any profit probably has to be reinvested to keep up with demand in teslas case, don't they have battery supply issues still.
tesla has competition in china with BAIC or whatever they are called, I think they were still #1 in china last I checked

most of these EV companies I don't think will beat the big boys. a lot of them are probably hoping to get bought out at some point.

anyone looking to invest should probably be looking at the companies providing the charging points, the battery makers, the electric motor companies etc probably.

bought a few BP shares myself and some other related players like ABB, Schneider.
sold tesla at 640 a few days back, seems like too much of a hype bubble right now
 
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jpaul said:
in the usa seems Mach E is cheaper, plus, something about TY federal subsidy having run out, they also have high 60K/yr vehicle capacity, so sounds as though it may have a sweet spot there, and EU is disadvantaged, googles telling me it coming from Mexico too.

edit: video I saw was from $35K
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In the US the base model with 230 mile range is $43k (before Federal Tax Credit)
The mid spec model with 300 mile range is $50k with 290hp

It’s too expensive and in the UK the EV tax credit is less than the US, so it’s even more expensive.
 
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I cut it where my legible 1080 screen scrab permitted & was leaving insideev's with some advertising revenue - the rest of that link is interesting too.

SDK^ said:
In the US the base model with 230 mile range is $43k (before Federal Tax Credit)
The mid spec model with 300 mile range is $50k with 290hp
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mache e select 36K(0-60 6s) , polestar 53K ... hum
 
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