When will GPUs return to normal pricing....

[ljt]

I gave up looking for one since my series X arrived. Got plenty of games to play via game pass.

Until you can easily get a card at msrp or within £20-£50 of the FE for a decent AIB then I'm no longer interested because they simply aren't good enough to warrant me spending any more than that on one.

 

[Sleepy Stu]

Some people talking about selling 3080 to get a 3080Ti in a few months...

Makes sense if the 3080ti was the card you actually wanted and currently you can get back the same or more than you paid for the 3080. Caveat of course is that you have a card to tide you over and also are prepared to play the F5 game for a while when they are launched as the stock levels will be equally as shocking!!

 

[Jono8]

There isn't a lot of value in the gpu market anymore.

Many things have happened (crypto demand, exchange rates etc) that have really made buying a top end GPU a stupidly expensive proposition.

I bought a 8800gtx in 2007 for £335. At the time xbox 360's were £280 ish and ps3's were £400 ish

Right now, to buy a top gpu that will barely outperform the new £450 consoles, you are looking at ~£800

I do like PC gaming and i have to have a pretty good rig (cpu/ram) for other tasks, so normally it is only the gpu i have to price in. However this year I bought a Series X because stock levels and pricing of pc gpus is just stupid. The value for what you get in the new consoles compared to a just a single high end GPU right now is insane.

 

[Telecaster]

I know stock is non-existent for the latest and greatest, but why are there no cards in stock for us plebs? I was considering spending my spare time this winter catching up on a bit of gaming and had kind of narrowed it down to a 1660 Super, obviously not happening now or any time soon from the looks of it.

 

[FoxEye]

There isn't a lot of value in the gpu market anymore.

Many things have happened (crypto demand, exchange rates etc) that have really made buying a top end GPU a stupidly expensive proposition.

I bought a 8800gtx in 2007 for £335. At the time xbox 360's were £280 ish and ps3's were £400 ish

Right now, to buy a top gpu that will barely outperform the new £450 consoles, you are looking at ~£800

I do like PC gaming and i have to have a pretty good rig (cpu/ram) for other tasks, so normally it is only the gpu i have to price in. However this year I bought a Series X because stock levels and pricing of pc gpus is just stupid. The value for what you get in the new consoles compared to a just a single high end GPU right now is insane.

Did a little reading about proof of work this morning, and my conclusion is that we're 100% ****ed as a species, thanks to blockchain.

Basically blockchain advocates will tell you that PoW is not inefficient. Their reasoning is that blockchain converts energy into "security", and the more energy that needs to be spent, the more secure the outcome.

Blockchain is most secure, they say, when the energy used to create hashes tends towards 100% of all human energy used. Because then there is no energy left to attack blockchain (lol).

The goal of Bitcoin and other blockchain implementations IS NOT to reduce energy cost. They don't see it as waste. They don't want to compare with non-blockchain technology (that's been around decades and doesn't waste energy quite so profoundly).

Instead, blockchain advocates see a future where blockchain uses all the world's energy, and in return provides "security of blockchain".

It's the most bizarro pseudo-religion you can find. Worse probably even that Scientology.

They don't see consumption of energy as a problem - they actually want MORE consumption of energy and resources, until blockchain is using everything we can produce! And that they see as a good thing... it's ****** up.

 

[gpuerrilla]

I went from a 1070ti > 3080 after skipping Turing as the price/performance was terrible and I'm sure there were many others who chose to ignore Turing and sit on old 9/10 series cards then add to this the demand from the seasonal upgraders coupled with the supply issues all came together to create the current situation.

Yeah 9 series, 10 series and a chunk of 20 series card owners all piled into the market with the new wave of tuber/content/generation Z building rigs for xmas. Was always going to be more demand than supply.

 

[lemonkettaz]

I was looking at building a pc a while back, put it on hold and now I see it will definitely not happen to probably next summer... I have a case and psu sat collecting dust.

In the meantime I got a gaming laptop so not in any hurry but looks like I need not be in a hurry anytime... ever

 

[gpuerrilla]

Did a little reading about proof of work this morning, and my conclusion is that we're 100% ****ed as a species, thanks to blockchain.

As someone who has been into the space since 2012, not countering any of your point specifically, but to think regular payment systems, services and data farms run on thin air is an understatement. All electronics on these consumed devices waste energy and I think a lot of selective reading forgets that there is tons of waste generated on stupid archaic systems still being used since the 70/80s for example the banking practices. When you use the FIAT system your transaction are using huge data centres across the planet to make it happen.

Data farming in all cases for marketing, research, selling on is all wasting energy and your not batting an eyelid. This will dwarf the blockchains current energy in comparison.

 

[Sleepy Stu]

Did a little reading about proof of work this morning, and my conclusion is that we're 100% ****ed as a species, thanks to blockchain.

Basically blockchain advocates will tell you that PoW is not inefficient. Their reasoning is that blockchain converts energy into "security", and the more energy that needs to be spent, the more secure the outcome.

Blockchain is most secure, they say, when the energy used to create hashes tends towards 100% of all human energy used. Because then there is no energy left to attack blockchain (lol).

The goal of Bitcoin and other blockchain implementations IS NOT to reduce energy cost. They don't see it as waste. They don't want to compare with non-blockchain technology (that's been around decades and doesn't waste energy quite so profoundly).

Instead, blockchain advocates see a future where blockchain uses all the world's energy, and in return provides "security of blockchain".

It's the most bizarro pseudo-religion you can find. Worse probably even that Scientology.

They don't see consumption of energy as a problem - they actually want MORE consumption of energy and resources, until blockchain is using everything we can produce! And that they see as a good thing... it's ****** up.

PoW is fine to start with to actually mine the coins but eventually the end game is to move to proof of stake. If you look at Ethereum you will see they have just launched Ethereum 2.0 which is proof of stake. PoS does not rely on ever increasing amounts of energy and in theory can still provide the same level of security. Obviously there is a lot more to it but that's more background reading for you

 

[FoxEye]

As someone who has been into the space since 2012, not countering any of you point, but to think regular payment systems, services and data farms run on thin air is an understatement. All electronics on these consumed devices waste energy and I think a lot of selective reading forgets that there is tons of waste generated on stupid archaic systems still being used since the 70/80s for example the banking practices. When you use the FIAT system your transaction are using huge data centres across the planet to make it happen.

But non-blockchain system use only as much energy as they need to do x,y,z.

Blockchain by comparison wants to use as much energy as it can for any given operation. It doesn't seek to reduce energy costs - it seeks to increase them!

And using the maximum amount of energy for any given operation is seen as the "most secure" way to perform that operation.

So whilst most of us are concerned with reducing waste, blockchain doesn't even agree that waste exists. Blockchain sees burning as much energy as possible as the BEST outcome! That is nuts!

 

[FoxEye]

PoW is fine to start with to actually mine the coins but eventually the end game is to move to proof of stake. If you look at Ethereum you will see they have just launched Ethereum 2.0 which is proof of stake. PoS does not rely on ever increasing amounts of energy and in theory can still provide the same level of security.

No it isn't, tho. Many Bitcoin advocates and other blockchain disciples will tell you that PoW is the best possible way. That using energy to provide security is ultimately what blockchain is all about, and we should consider this a price worth paying for "blockchain security".

They *want* maximum energy usage possible. You can find a lot of debate about it, sure, but there are many blockchain influencers who believe in PoW as the best thing.

 

[stooeh]

There isn't a lot of value in the gpu market anymore.

Many things have happened (crypto demand, exchange rates etc) that have really made buying a top end GPU a stupidly expensive proposition.

I bought a 8800gtx in 2007 for £335. At the time xbox 360's were £280 ish and ps3's were £400 ish

Right now, to buy a top gpu that will barely outperform the new £450 consoles, you are looking at ~£800

I do like PC gaming and i have to have a pretty good rig (cpu/ram) for other tasks, so normally it is only the gpu i have to price in. However this year I bought a Series X because stock levels and pricing of pc gpus is just stupid. The value for what you get in the new consoles compared to a just a single high end GPU right now is insane.

I don't think the 8800 GTX is a good example as it was released when it was around two dollars to the pound and google has the release price as $600 - current GPUs would look a lot more attractive if we still had that kind of exchange rate
Back then I considered the 8800 GTX a rip off and bought an 8800GT in Oct 2007 for £172.78 inc vat also helped by the strong GBP

 

[gpuerrilla]

But non-blockchain system use only as much energy as they need to do x,y,z.

Blockchain by comparison wants to use as much energy as it can for any given operation. It doesn't seek to reduce energy costs - it seeks to increase them!

And using the maximum amount of energy for any given operation is seen as the "most secure" way to perform that operation.

So whilst most of us are concerned with reducing waste, blockchain doesn't even agree that waste exists. Blockchain sees burning as much energy as possible as the BEST outcome! That is nuts!

I think you need to check out PoS, there are plenty of these or hybrid systems going that way just to appease the green brigade. Running nodes does not always need blockchain and PoW systems. Your probably about 6 months behind where your opinion should sit as there is lots of you should digest if you want a current informed opinion on it now.

 

[gpuerrilla]

No it isn't, tho. Many Bitcoin advocates and other blockchain disciples will tell you that PoW is the best possible way. That using energy to provide security is ultimately what blockchain is all about, and we should consider this a price worth paying for "blockchain security".

They *want* maximum energy usage possible. You can find a lot of debate about it, sure, but there are many blockchain influencers who believe in PoW as the best thing.

People who think Bitcoin and Blockchain in the same context are only at the tip of the iceberg.

Also taking it onto the crypto forum would be better discussion as it gets dusty over there!

 

[FoxEye]

I mean just look at these guys advocating PoW and maximum energy use:

Blockchain Myth 5: Proof of Work wastes energy | by Jan Grabski | Coinmonks | Medium

PoW isn't wasting anything. PoS is not cheaper that PoW. this myth just won't di... | Hacker News (ycombinator.com)

 

[gpuerrilla]

I mean just look at these guys advocating PoW and maximum energy use:

Blockchain Myth 5: Proof of Work wastes energy | by Jan Grabski | Coinmonks | Medium

PoW isn't wasting anything. PoS is not cheaper that PoW. this myth just won't di... | Hacker News (ycombinator.com)

I know there are lots of vocal silverbacks in that space but the real innovation is happening elsewhere. You forget bitcoin and the original 'blockchain' was 2010. The industry is way ahead of that now and 'store of value' is not its greatest use case by a long shot.

 

[FoxEye]

People who think Bitcoin and Blockchain in the same context are only at the tip of the iceberg.

Also taking it onto the crypto forum would be better discussion as it gets dusty over there!

I'm not confusing Bitcoin with blockchain. Bitcoin happens to be one of the most well-known blockchain examples.

Also no, this is related to GPU shortages and I'm leaving it right here.

GPUs are a type of resource and blockchain can consume an infinite amount of them, along with an infinite amount of energy, with precisely zero real-world benefit to increasing resource usage.

If mining keeps going or keeps increasing, you can kiss goodbye to your cheap energy AND your gaming GPUs.

 

[gpuerrilla]

I'm not confusing Bitcoin with blockchain. Bitcoin happens to be one of the most well-known blockchain examples.

Also no, this is related to GPU shortages and I'm leaving it right here.

GPUs are a type of resource and blockchain can consume an infinite amount of them, along with an infinite amount of energy, with precisely zero real-world benefit to increasing resource usage.

If mining keeps going or keeps increasing, you can kiss goodbye to your cheap energy AND your gaming GPUs.

You do realise CPU's can also substitute into your glass argument? Monero and some others only use CPU algo's. Its not just a GPU rant if that's what your soap boxing.

Also just to quantify your paranoia:

Currently, the tool estimates that Bitcoin is using around seven gigawatts of electricity, equal to 0.21% of the world's supply. That is as much power as would be generated by seven Dungeness nuclear power plants at once.

or a bit more energy than Switzerland.

 

[Jono8]

I don't think the 8800 GTX is a good example as it was released when it was around two dollars to the pound and google has the release price as $600 - current GPUs would look a lot more attractive if we still had that kind of exchange rate
Back then I considered the 8800 GTX a rip off and bought an 8800GT in Oct 2007 for £172.78 inc vat also helped by the strong GBP

I know, which is why i highlighted exchange rates as one of the issues causing the silly prices over here

 

[FoxEye]

I know there are lots of vocal silverbacks in that space but the real innovation is happening elsewhere. You forget bitcoin and the original 'blockchain' was 2010. The industry is way ahead of that now and 'store of value' is not its greatest use case by a long shot.

It hardly matters what niche uses there are.

What matters is the 100 lb gorilla, which is mining for Eth/BTC/alt-coins etc. And the amount of GPUs being bought and the energy being pee'd up the wall for this usage.

Unless the major resource users stop accruing and using ever more resources, the situation isn't going to improve is it.

You do realise CPU's can also substitute into your glass argument? Monero and some others only use CPU algo's. Its not just a GPU rant if that's what your soap boxing.

Also just to quantify your paranoia:

or a bit more energy than Switzerland.

Are you a miner by any chance? Soap boxing? Is that what you call it? Are environmentalists soap boxing also?