Anyone a magistrate?

Russinating

Russinating

Russinating

Soldato
Joined
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Posts
17,316
Location
Bristol
The courts have always interested me, and although I'm in a field totally unrelated to anything legal the role of a magistrate sounds interesting.

I've been the primary prosecution witness in a magistrates court before but I don't think I realised at the time they were volunteers and their role etc.

Is anyone here a magistrate, or been one, and have any advice or stories to share?
 
I'm a magistrate for my local area. If you're interested then the secret barrister gives an interesting view point from the barristers/lawyers, and I found http://magistratesblog.blogspot.com/ very helpful when I was deciding to apply. It is a very long and drawn out application process and the various areas only recruit at set times. Make sure to have a look at https://www.gov.uk/become-magistrate/apply-to-be-a-magistrate and see if your local area is recruiting, or when its next recruitment period may be.
 
Thanks @York. I've got the book on order - should be arriving tomorrow - and I've had a look at the Gov.uk pages. I didn't get as far as downloading the recruitment doc though but thanks for that as it seems my area (Avon Somerset) aren't recruiting at the moment anyway. Do they generally recruit yearly?

I'll take a look at that blog too, thanks.
 
Russinating said:
Thanks @York. I've got the book on order - should be arriving tomorrow - and I've had a look at the Gov.uk pages. I didn't get as far as downloading the recruitment doc though but thanks for that as it seems my area (Avon Somerset) aren't recruiting at the moment anyway. Do they generally recruit yearly?

I'll take a look at that blog too, thanks.
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Recruitment times really depend on how many magistrates are retiring (you have to retire at 70) or are leaving. There have been a lot of court closures in recent years which has condensed the number of magistrates (it's gone from around 30k magistrates in 2001 to something like 16k now) and has stunted recruitment as there have been too many magistrates for the number of available courtrooms etc. If you're interested I'd definitely recommend emailing the secretary for the recruitment committee for your area to just inquire when they might next be looking to recruit.

It is a big commitment though - you have to be able to commit at least 13 working days a year (that's the minimum, most do more) plus the required training - typically that's either briefings in the evening or whole days away to be briefed on new legislation. I'm quite lucky as my current employer gives me the time off fully paid (that's in the private sector as well!), but you can claim a limited amount of loss-of-earnings if your employer will only give you the time off unpaid (it's a legal right that you have to be given the time off to carry out your duties as a magistrate, in a similar way to jury duty).

Because of the lack of recruitment and the time you have to commit the majority of magistrates (over 85%) are over 50 years old with over 55% being over 60, something like less than 4% of magistrates are aged under 40 years old but the minimum age is actually 18 providing you meet the other criteria and get through the various interview rounds. There's a huge push in most areas to recruit more magistrates that are 18-40yrs old to try and address this imbalance.

One other book I'd recommend that I read when I was thinking about applying was "The Magistrate's Tale: A Frontline Report from a New JP". It's a little long in the tooth now, and a lot of the reforms talked about have come/gone but it gives a good idea about the application process and what is involved in being a magistrate.

If you've got any questions feel free to ask though :)
 
Russinating said:
The courts have always interested me, and although I'm in a field totally unrelated to anything legal the role of a magistrate sounds interesting.

I've been the primary prosecution witness in a magistrates court before but I don't think I realised at the time they were volunteers and their role etc.

Is anyone here a magistrate, or been one, and have any advice or stories to share?
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Long while since you posted this, but have you since become a magistrates, or something similar?
 
TimTom said:
Long while since you posted this, but have you since become a magistrates, or something similar?
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Unfortunately not, I tried to apply year before last I think but you had to have sat in on 3 cases in the last 3 months and have the case numbers/names to back that up. I have sat in on some but hadn't been to that many that recently. Give there's no guarantee of if and when applications open you basically have to consistently visit a case or two a month which I think given they're basically crying out for anyone who isn't a retired white guy is a big ask.

Not even sure if the courts have even been open during COVID? One of my neighbours is a barrister and I know she's been doing everything via video calls.
 
Russinating said:
Unfortunately not, I tried to apply year before last I think but you had to have sat in on 3 cases in the last 3 months and have the case numbers/names to back that up. I have sat in on some but hadn't been to that many that recently. Give there's no guarantee of if and when applications open you basically have to consistently visit a case or two a month which I think given they're basically crying out for anyone who isn't a retired white guy is a big ask.

Not even sure if the courts have even been open during COVID? One of my neighbours is a barrister and I know she's been doing everything via video calls.
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They’re still functioning but using video link extensively.

I can’t speak for today but in the past, when I attended often on police business, they were educational places in more ways than one. I suppose you saw all extremes of life really. Some fun times too. I suspect being a JP was a real experience. Not sure if it still is now.
 
If our local paper is anything to go by, the main role of a magistrate is to accept any old sob story, believe that despite having committed the same crime 112 times, the accused is a reformed character, then dish out a pitiful sentence (probably either a suspended sentence, or a fine that will never be paid) that makes everyone wonder why anyone even bothered!
 
jellybeard999 said:
If our local paper is anything to go by, the main role of a magistrate is to accept any old sob story, believe that despite having committed the same crime 112 times, the accused is a reformed character, then dish out a pitiful sentence (probably either a suspended sentence, or a fine that will never be paid) that makes everyone wonder why anyone even bothered!
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Chronicle? They're utterly pathetic aren't they?
 
jellybeard999 said:
If our local paper is anything to go by, the main role of a magistrate is to accept any old sob story, believe that despite having committed the same crime 112 times, the accused is a reformed character, then dish out a pitiful sentence (probably either a suspended sentence, or a fine that will never be paid) that makes everyone wonder why anyone even bothered!
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If you don't agree with the justice, then apply to be a magistrate. The whole system is judgement by your peers, but due to the commitment and other factors it's largely retired or wealthy peers, and therefore of a certain demographic, predominantly white and middle to upper class.

Anyone can become a magistrate and be a part of and change that system.

Otherwise to directly respond to your point, it is the legal counsel, not the magistrates, who largely advices and therefore ultimately decides on sentences based on the law and similar/recent cases.
 
York said:
It is a big commitment though - you have to be able to commit at least 13 working days a year (that's the minimum, most do more) plus the required training - typically that's either briefings in the evening or whole days away to be briefed on new legislation. I'm quite lucky as my current employer gives me the time off fully paid (that's in the private sector as well!), but you can claim a limited amount of loss-of-earnings if your employer will only give you the time off unpaid (it's a legal right that you have to be given the time off to carry out your duties as a magistrate, in a similar way to jury duty).

Because of the lack of recruitment and the time you have to commit the majority of magistrates (over 85%) are over 50 years old with over 55% being over 60, something like less than 4% of magistrates are aged under 40 years old but the minimum age is actually 18 providing you meet the other criteria and get through the various interview rounds. There's a huge push in most areas to recruit more magistrates that are 18-40yrs old to try and address this imbalance.
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Russinating said:
Unfortunately not, I tried to apply year before last I think but you had to have sat in on 3 cases in the last 3 months and have the case numbers/names to back that up. I have sat in on some but hadn't been to that many that recently. Give there's no guarantee of if and when applications open you basically have to consistently visit a case or two a month which I think given they're basically crying out for anyone who isn't a retired white guy is a big ask.
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Russinating said:
If you don't agree with the justice, then apply to be a magistrate
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Voltar said:
This 100%.
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Seem easier said than done, even by your own account Russ.
 
Dis86 said:
Seem easier said than done, even by your own account Russ.
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Yep. No excuse to sit back and complain though!

Weirdly being my own my boss makes the commitment harder as, similar to jury duty, having time off work to be a magistrate is a legal right. When that has a direct impact on P&L that's a far more difficult commitment to make. And obviously loss of earnings is more complex and unlikely to actually cover true losses.
 
Russinating said:
Anyone can become a magistrate and be a part of and change that system.
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This is why I became a magistrate - I don't fit the standard stereotype, and believe I bring a different set of life experiences to any proceedings.

Russinating said:
Otherwise, to directly respond to your point, it is the legal counsel, not the magistrates, who largely advices and therefore ultimately decides on sentences based on the law and similar/recent cases.
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What I would say here is that it's not the legal advisor that advises on sentence but on points of law that need to be considered. Sentance is actually guided by the Sentencing Council guidelines (and you can view the exact guidelines we use in court here - https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/), but again these are just guidelines. We can, and do, go outside of these guidelines where there are compelling reasons to. If we deviate from a guideline we have to justify it in open court - and the reason can't just be because we wanted to.

jellybeard999 said:
If our local paper is anything to go by, the main role of a magistrate is to accept any old sob story, believe that despite having committed the same crime 112 times, the accused is a reformed character, then dish out a pitiful sentence (probably either a suspended sentence, or a fine that will never be paid) that makes everyone wonder why anyone even bothered!
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Remember though that all of this is tempered by the fact that sentencing powers are limited in a magistrate court. Normally 6 months custodial or 300hrs community service or an unlimited fine, or some combination; there are rare cases where this can be extended to 1yr custodial. But Prison is a harsh punishment for anyone and many crimes do not pass the custody threshold, and nor is it appropriate. And a suspended sentence IS a custodial sentence. If you commit any crime within the suspended period you will be instantly sent down for the original crime. If we send someone down that is in council accommodation and on benefits they instantly lose all benefits, all secure housing, any help they had received, and when they are released (which can be only a matter of days or weeks, or instantly in some cases due to Prison overcrowding) they are in the position of having to reapply for all of those which can result in a wait of weeks - putting them back on the streets and often back into a position where their only option is to commit further crime. Laying out a punishment that sets someone up to fail is not fair to the person or society as a whole. Clearly, there are crimes where these considerations are outweighed by the seriousness of the offense, and a crime still needs to be punished, but what is often printed in a paper does not provide the full facts of any case. Any sentence weighs up the need to Rehabilitate, to Punish, to do service to the Victim, and to send a message to anyone that would want to carry out that crime in the future. A small fine provided to someone on benefits can hurt a lot more than a £1,000 driving fine handed to a multi-millionaire and have a much longer-lasting impact than some custodial sentences.
 
jellybeard999 said:
Here's an example in todays paper.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18992065.man-breaches-court-order-33rd-time-fined-50/

I agree it's a relatively minor offense, but why keep issuing the same punishment that doesn't work?
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So I don't know the facts of that case, but it does appear that his CBO is for antisocial behaviour. The question is would you send someone to jail for being drunk and affecting no one other than themselves? I'd likely place his breach into category C3 within the guidelines - https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.u...rt/item/breach-of-a-criminal-behaviour-order/, which leaves sentencing options as a fine at 100% weekly income (Band B) through to a community order. If he's homeless, an alcoholic and has other potential issues then the probation service will say he's not suitable for an unpaid work requirement, and if he is unwilling to engage with an alcohol program he is unsuitable for that form of help. He has also likely pleaded guilty at the first opportunity, therefore entitling him to 1/3rd off of any sentence handed down. So the question becomes what do you do with someone that regularly breaches or commits low-level crime? There isn't an easy or simple answer to this, and you will often find that the hands of a sentencer are tied to a very limited set of options.
 
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