Are joggers the new cyclists?

Dis86 said:
If you did that traffic couldn't move if there were pedestrians. Every single urban area in the UK would grind to a halt.
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Your judgement as a driver is flawed if you recognise a hazard is present but don't reduce the risk from your side.

Or even more flawed if you don't recognise the hazard so you get surprised and react badly if it happens.

I swear this is in driving tests.
 
arfoll said:
In your example, the pedestrian moves on to the road making them a legitimate road user no? You should really read 205-210. I think you would find it enlightening.

"There is a risk of pedestrians, especially children, stepping unexpectedly into the road. You should drive with the safety of children in mind at a speed suitable for the conditions."
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There are practical limits though - you can't go past every single pedestrian at the 5 mph or so it would necessitate to be able to react in time to them doing something stupid.

I always stick strictly to the speed limit in built up areas and try and drive appropriately for the conditions i.e. if there is a bus stopped to let people off I will slow down considerably and assume someone might walk out from behind it, etc. etc. but there are loads of instances where I see people going to do something silly and I think "if you do that there is no way I will be able to react and stop/swerve in time to avoid you".
 
arfoll said:
In your example, the pedestrian moves on to the road making them a legitimate road user no? You should really read 205-210. I think you would find it enlightening.

"There is a risk of pedestrians, especially children, stepping unexpectedly into the road. You should drive with the safety of children in mind at a speed suitable for the conditions."
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No, it wouldn't make them a road user. It would, as explained several times, make them a footpath user who has stepped in front of a moving vehicle.

Why are you quoting sections about children when we're talking about grown adults? Do you not know know difference between children and adults either?

Do you need pictures to help you?

Hotwired said:
Your judgement as a driver is flawed if you recognise a hazard is present but don't reduce the risk from your side.

Or even more flawed if you don't recognise the hazard so you get surprised and react badly if it happens.

I swear this is in driving tests.
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Every pedestrian isn't a hazard. Every car waiting at a junction isn't a hazard. That plane flying overhead isn't a hazard.

You need to learn the difference between a hazard and a potential hazard.

Lethal` said:
Oh. I didn't realise pedestrians normally teleport over roads to the next pavement to avoid becoming road users.


If they display any hazardous intentions then I would approach at appropriate speed that I can stop in time should the hazard develop. I do take caution at T-junctions to ensure the driver isn't intending to pull out unexpectedly too.
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So you're now making up that this person displayed hazardous intentions?

And I don't know if you're aware but from a very young age people in this country are taught something called the green Cross code. What's the first part of that code? Use Google if you don't know. That might give you a clue as to how utterly retarded your first sentence is when followed by the rest of your post.
 
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The Highways Act would seem to suggest that the footway is part of a road.

It is the duty of a highway authority to provide in or by the side of a highway maintainable at the public expense by them which consists of or comprises a made-up carriageway, a proper and sufficient footway as part of the highway in any case where they consider the provision of a footway as necessary or desirable for the safety or accommodation of pedestrians; and they may light any footway provided by them under this subsection.
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Dis86 said:
So you're now making up that this person displayed hazardous intentions?

And I don't know if you're aware but from a very young age people in this country are taught something called the green Cross code. What's the first part of that code? Use Google if you don't know. That might give you a clue as to how utterly retarded your first sentence is when followed by the rest of your post.
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No. We were talking hypothetically about pedestrians in general not a specific case.

Ah, yes. Of course. I'm sure if you run down a jogger and say in court "BUT THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW THE FIRST OF THE GREEN CROSS CODE" you'll be completely absolved of any responsibility.
 
Lethal` said:
The Highways Act would seem to suggest that the footway is part of a road.






No. We were talking hypothetically about pedestrians in general not a specific case.

Ah, yes. Of course. I'm sure if you run down a jogger and say in court "BUT THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW THE FIRST OF THE GREEN CROSS CODE" you'll be completely absolved of any responsibility.
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Youre getting confused again. A highway and road are different things. You talked about driving to the conditions of the road...want me to quote you?

I can speak from experience. A friend of my father's ran over a child and killed them. They were absolved of all charges in court because their dashcam footage proved the child ran out without warning.
So yes. You would.

arfoll said:
It clearly states pedestrians. Then says you should be even more careful with children... I suggest you read it a little more carefully

Obviously no one thinks you can stop someone running in front of your car. But this is rarely what actually happens and is simply called suicide... if you believe truly that you are struggling to deal with joggers stepping on the road then I will simply apologise on behalf of all the joggers.
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And the final sentence says what? Ah yes, it only talks about the safety of children. Not all footpath users. Children.

Do you understand the difference between children and adults in terms of behavioral expectations?
 
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Dis86 said:
Every pedestrian isn't a hazard. Every car waiting at a junction isn't a hazard. That plane flying overhead isn't a hazard.

You need to learn the difference between a hazard and a potential hazard.
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No I don't, I merely need to remember to include the word "potential" in briefly written posts.

The point has been the entire time that you're presenting yourself as being unduly crippled if you have to take note of potential hazards when it's basic driving.
 
Lethal` said:
It's not The Road Code though is it? It's the highway code.
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That's right, because actions on it apply to those on the highway who interact with the road. Like those about to cross it. Stopping before you cross is an indicator of intent. It's there to show others you mean to cross the road.
 
arfoll said:
Sorry but you read:
"There is a risk of pedestrians, especially children, stepping unexpectedly into the road. You should drive with the safety of children in mind at a speed suitable for the conditions."

as "take care of pedestrians stepping unexpectedly into the road but only if they are children, adults are fine"?
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Does it mention driving with the safety of adults in mind? No. Because there is an expectation that grown adults aren't stupid enough to step in front of moving vehicles.
 
arfoll said:
I'm not a lawyer, but I believe when they discuss pedestrians as vulnerable road users, I believe they are also including adults, even stupid ones.
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In a court of law, having dealt with this first hand, you are not absolved of being responsible for your own safety.
It is not a normal expectation for an adult to step out in front of a moving vehicle.
 
youv'e got to look after all the pedestrians - we're not talking about rocket science, or the interpreation of the covid rules.
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
Audi driver?
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Bmw actually:D. Its mainly when they cross the road and don't check to see if a car is already turning into that junction. I have no issues with joggers or cyclists that use a brain but it seems that's becoming a smaller percentage all the time (flame suit on:p, I know car drivers are not gods, but you have a protective metal box around you). I do actually go out cycling with the family (only casual though and during the day), I just don't get why you wouldn't make yourself visible, and that goes for car drivers too, I've seen plenty if people driving dark cars with no lights on at all. Dome people in here seem to think it's a personal dig at them (which it's not, unless you don't use lights:p).
 
Joggers should be forced to use the popup covid19 cycle lanes & share them with the cyclists! ;) Both are a menace to vehicles afaic they think they own the road despite not paying anything towards using it so let them share the bit the councils have wasted 100s of millions on & fight it out amongst themselves :p
 
AWPC said:
Joggers should be forced to use the popup covid19 cycle lanes & share them with the cyclists! ;) Both are a menace to vehicles afaic they think they own the road despite not paying anything towards using it so let them share the bit the councils have wasted 100s of millions on & fight it out amongst themselves :p
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What about all these drivers?
 
AWPC said:
Joggers should be forced to use the popup covid19 cycle lanes & share them with the cyclists! ;) Both are a menace to vehicles afaic they think they own the road despite not paying anything towards using it so let them share the bit the councils have wasted 100s of millions on & fight it out amongst themselves :p
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Ah that old chestnut. The VED on our Polo is a whopping £20 a year. How much entitlement does that get my wife for the sum of 5 pence per day?

I'm such a **** when I block up the roads on my bike. I mean my two cars have a combined VED of £420 a year but cyclists don't pay towards the roads, right? Not that there is such a thing as 'road tax' anymore but we'll leave that for another day. It's probably too much to take in right now ;)
 
Making this a slightly meta topic:

I cycle a lot and frequently experience joggers in my cycle lane, going against the flow of traffic, at night, with no reflective gear on.

Annoys the hell out of me.
 
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