Renault 5 Reborn As Electric Supermini

Nasher · 15 Jan 2021 at 15:43

WJA96 said:
Yep. The standard Corsa e is 136PS and 0-60 in 8 seconds and it feels pretty quick. The rumoured VXR is 204PS (150kW) and it should be decently quick. Sub 6 seconds 0-60 maybe quicker.

Depends on weight. It wont be under 6 seconds with 200hp if it's as heavy as the standard car at 1530kg.

paradigm said:
Isn't there a tie-in here with Alpine? That's certainly what the PH article suggests. My guess is there will be a performance variant, but it'll be badged as an Alpine.

A bodykit, rock hard suspension and a badge. "Sporty"

Malevolence · 15 Jan 2021 at 16:11

Learned to drive in 5 Campus, and then my second car was a GT Turbo - that car is the main reason why I understand James May and his 'fizz'. This though, well this does nothing for me.

WJA96 · 15 Jan 2021 at 16:21

Nasher said:
Depends on weight. It wont be under 6 seconds with 200hp if it's as heavy as the standard car at 1530kg.

So if it matched the last 205ps 1.6 petrol turbo VXR with a 6.5sec 0-100km/h time would that be acceptable? I think it's a measure of how the who 'performance' thing has shifted that we're saying a 6 second 0-60 time isn't that quick. That's quick enough, surely?

Jonnycoupe · 15 Jan 2021 at 16:26

WJA96 said:
Yep. The standard Corsa e is 136PS and 0-60 in 8 seconds and it feels pretty quick. The rumoured VXR is 204PS (150kW) and it should be decently quick. Sub 6 seconds 0-60 maybe quicker.

Pretty much the Seat El-Born, which also benefits from its MEB RWD platform...

And that's 7.5 to 60. The performance element of an EV having pretty much zero prep time compared to ICE before considering overtakes etc makes them faster in the real world than our paper stats have got us used to - a bit of re calibration will be needed.

WJA96 · 15 Jan 2021 at 16:29

Surely the El-Born is golf sized and heavier at 1850kg? It should be quicker than that.

Plus in 0-60 times with massive torque AWD generally beats RWD.

Jonnycoupe · 15 Jan 2021 at 16:31

I see little reason to think an ID3 is any heavier than a Corsa when comparing similar battery size options.

Also i3 is exceptionally light and doesnt seem to have figures in the 6's

Kenai · 15 Jan 2021 at 16:33

Mini Electric is lighter I think and achieves something like 7.3 with 180bhp?

I think 7s to 60 would probably be a reasonable expectation of a 200bhp Corsa eVXR

Nasher · 15 Jan 2021 at 16:46

WJA96 said:
So if it matched the last 205ps 1.6 petrol turbo VXR with a 6.5sec 0-100km/h time would that be acceptable? I think it's a measure of how the who 'performance' thing has shifted that we're saying a 6 second 0-60 time isn't that quick. That's quick enough, surely?

That's not bad, but the added weight is also going to remove a lot of agility from it.

WJA96 · 15 Jan 2021 at 16:47

Jonnycoupe said:
I see little reason to think an ID3 is any heavier than a Corsa when comparing similar battery size options.

Also i3 is exceptionally light and doesnt seem to have figures in the 6's

It's 300kg lighter. almost 20%. even adding in 100kg for the rear motor it will be lighter. Heck, the Vauxhall is only half a second slower with 136PS vs the 204PS in the El Born.

WJA96 · 15 Jan 2021 at 16:49

Nasher said:
That's not bad, but the added weight is also going to remove a lot of agility from it.

Define agility? The weight distribution favours flat, stable cornering.

Nasher · 15 Jan 2021 at 16:54

WJA96 said:
Define agility? The weight distribution favours flat, stable cornering.

But you just can't break the laws of physics. It still has a lot of weight to lug around and you can feel that in a car. Light cars feel much more responsive everywhere as there is less momentum.

Sticking the batteries on the chassis doesn't automatically give the car good balance either.

Jonnycoupe · 15 Jan 2021 at 17:00

WJA96 said:
It's 300kg lighter. almost 20%. even adding in 100kg for the rear motor it will be lighter. Heck, the Vauxhall is only half a second slower with 136PS vs the 204PS in the El Born.

Its 70kg looking at the entry figures, I don't know where you invented 1800+ from. The Corsa and 208 have a sub optimal battery pack unlike the BEV specific MEB so the packs are similar mass but the VW gets 58kWh rather than 50kWh.

Lets see what happens anyway.

Jonnycoupe · 15 Jan 2021 at 17:01

Nasher said:
That's not bad, but the added weight is also going to remove a lot of agility from it.

Throttle response will soon help that aspect. Plus as pointed out the low CofG.

Nasher · 15 Jan 2021 at 17:31

Jonnycoupe said:
Throttle response will soon help that aspect. Plus as pointed out the low CofG.

Teslas have a low center of mavity but don't corner all that great. As does a bus

It takes more than that. If they fit some good suspension and a fast steering rack it could feel great, but it's a car for the masses so they won't.

WJA96 · 15 Jan 2021 at 18:03

Jonnycoupe said:
Its 70kg looking at the entry figures, I don't know where you invented 1800+ from. The Corsa and 208 have a sub optimal battery pack unlike the BEV specific MEB so the packs are similar mass but the VW gets 58kWh rather than 50kWh.

Lets see what happens anyway.

This is where I got my facts from. It was you that switched from El Born to iD3.

https://ev-database.uk/car/1178/CUPRA-el-Born

Jonnycoupe · 15 Jan 2021 at 18:12

It’s the same car...

okay as suspected the battery is gonna jump for performance to the 82kWh gross (77kWh) pack. Hence large jump for weight compared to 50 in a Corsa.

Worth noting the 77kWH RWD MEB are only 4 seats to limit Gross Vehicle Mass aswell. Keen to see if a faster Corsa will pop up, the 208 will of course be the better looking one.

Agree the Corsa is spritely on those per figure, probably geared a touch shorter.

back to the Renault stuff. UK Renault PR need to launch this car with Sacha Baren Cohen as Ali-E.

#myidea

WJA96 · 15 Jan 2021 at 18:36

Jonnycoupe said:
It’s the same car...

okay as suspected the battery is gonna jump for performance to the 82kWh gross (77kWh) pack. Hence large jump for weight compared to 50 in a Corsa.

Worth noting the 77kWH RWD MEB are only 4 seats to limit Gross Vehicle Mass aswell. Keen to see if a faster Corsa will pop up, the 208 will of course be the better looking one.

Agree the Corsa is spritely on those per figure, probably geared a touch shorter.

back to the Renault stuff. UK Renault PR need to launch this car with Sacha Baren Cohen as Ali-E.

#myidea

Nice try. No cigar.

It's not the same car, but you were absolutely correct. The perfomance proposition of the El born is similar to the Corsa VXR. And you also prove my point. The 1850kg El born has a 150kW motor, All wheel drive and does 0-100km/h in 6.5 secs. So an all wheel drive Corsa e with the same power but weighing even 100kg less should be quicker.

Kenai · 15 Jan 2021 at 18:55

WJA96 said:
The 1850kg El born has a 150kW motor, All wheel drive and does 0-100km/h in 6.5 secs.

7.5s I thought?

Jonnycoupe · 15 Jan 2021 at 19:17

Indeed and the RWD factor.

not looking for a cigar, I’m emission free

I actually have a part by part break down of the 208-e and ID3 1st edition max. So not really using that website link of a car that doesn’t exist yet.

My apologies for using data for discussion rather than guessimates. 150kW from 50kW will probably be bias to a more power centric cell than energy so this theoretical VXR might not materialise.

Ie. it’s gonna get a bigger heavier battery... like the El-born. Corsa VXR still born. I should work in marketing

Ninco! · 15 Jan 2021 at 19:53

I like it (shame its electric) Renault design some decent looking cars although I have yet to see an Alpine in the flesh!

Saw my first Honda-E only the other day and thought it was pretty cool looking car. The prototype posted earlier, love the wheels!