EV general discussion

Journey · 17 Jan 2021 at 19:53

GinG said:
Slightly more but then again the spec of the launch model is fully loaded. Still comes in at around £230 a month all in so still can't complain.

Still a cracking deal, lets hope the range isn't too bad, no official figures from what I can see, but these cars on stilts tend to really suffer in efficiency

Jonnycoupe · 17 Jan 2021 at 19:53

If they were on stilts they would be no bigger inside, which they are.

i remembr seeing the Mokka on fully charged and did look awesome, GM on a bit of an EV surge so saw stock rise 25% over the last week as I understand.

Journey · 17 Jan 2021 at 20:07

Jonnycoupe said:
If they were on stilts they would be no bigger inside, which they are.

Sadly your

in this instance is utterly wasted, since the Mokka is just the Corsa but higher, and has less space than an Astra as well.

Jonnycoupe · 17 Jan 2021 at 20:09

Journey said:
Sadly your in this instance is utterly wasted, since the Mokka is just the Corsa but higher, and has less space than an Astra as well.

With more headroom yeah? Please don’t start the posting like it’s fact game. No wink needed.

Journey · 17 Jan 2021 at 20:25

Jonnycoupe said:
With more headroom yeah? Please don’t start the posting like it’s fact game. No wink needed.

Ok I'll let you have the whole 14mm of extra headroom, you win. However still doesn't fight the fact they are way more inefficient.

Simon · 17 Jan 2021 at 20:41

Same with any car not just EV. Bigger cars need more energy.

Just only seems to be an issue with EV.

Not sure why it’s such a factor when they are already so much cheaper to run. Or is the real issue the charging ?

a big car can also carry more people comfortably so if we go down that route. Should efficiency include how many people it can carry ?

Jonnycoupe · 17 Jan 2021 at 20:51

Journey said:
Ok I'll let you have the whole 14mm of extra headroom, you win. However still doesn't fight the fact they are way more inefficient.

I’ll wait till I see the numbers, what’s the increase in posture. Don’t pretend it’s 14mm might also have an opening roof with tends to take out 25mm.

I agree the road load will increase with frontal area, let’s not go to off track here and make a Mokka of this thread... I’m not sure that means it’s less “efficient” though. My insight was very good. But no more efficient if more than 2 people needed to move -just for example.

If it gets someone out of the old Mokka to a new one that’s a success. Of course with design like that there’s going to be a significant number of conquest sales.

jpaul · 17 Jan 2021 at 20:56

Jonnycoupe said:
Cars and batteries have a 6 year period.

the earlier fleetnews/smmt link I posted suggested leaf may be failing the brexit rules of origin requirements NOW/already

... What is the (nhs?) PCP difference between the corsa-e and the mokka then ?

Jonnycoupe · 17 Jan 2021 at 21:34

It’s something like up to 70% of battery material from outside UK and EU dropping to 50% in 2024. Guess the Leaf is lots of Japanese NEC Since AESC took over the UK battery plant nothing has really happened to source the materials locally. Let’s see what happens in Cornwall.

Joe T · 18 Jan 2021 at 07:29

jpaul said:
Has the brexit deal had no impact on mokka ev import prices, ie they meet the new rules of origin, about battery/other parts ?
UK->eu export of Nissan leaf apparently have a question mark.

My understanding is that the rules of origin for BEVs are fairly light and that manuafcaturers have a few more years before batteries and motors will likely need to made in the EU/UK.

GinG said:
Thanks for the heads up, do you know rough delivery dates as yet?

I assume the car (launch spec model) will have things like remote warming etc from an app?

First cars should be in dealers March/April.

All PSA EVs have remote warming via the app. It's great this time of year.

Jonnycoupe said:
i remembr seeing the Mokka on fully charged and did look awesome, GM on a bit of an EV surge so saw stock rise 25% over the last week as I understand.

Nothing to do with GM.

Joe T · 18 Jan 2021 at 07:37

Simon said:
Same with any car not just EV. Bigger cars need more energy.

Just only seems to be an issue with EV.

Not sure why it’s such a factor when they are already so much cheaper to run. Or is the real issue the charging ?

EVs are massively more efficient than ICE, but they are able to store much less energy. Therefore any change to the efficiency makes a big difference to the distance they can travel before a recharge.

I did some rough maths over the weekend. My Corsa is averaging 3.4 miles per kWH. My Pontiac does 12mpg which is the equivalent to 0.3 miles per kwh. Even if it did 40mpg that would still be around 1 mile per kwh!

jpaul · 18 Jan 2021 at 08:22

Simon said:
a big car can also carry more people comfortably so if we go down that route. Should efficiency include how many people it can carry ?

I think peope have always been blind to increased/30% fuel costs of bigger less aerodynamic suv's, at highway speeds, I still hope that the estate form-factor undergoes some rejuvination.

Joe T said:
I did some rough maths over the weekend. My Corsa is averaging 3.4 miles per kWH.

I'd forgotten you have a corsa-e, so may have compared internal space/driving experience with a mokka.

Generally, tere don't seem to be any web sites that make a good comparison of rear/front passenger space/wells, seat sizes, real headroom, dash intrusion.

re-posting - brexit deal info - so there was said to be immediate impact

These are the rules of origin, according to the trade deal:

Gasoline and diesel cars need to be made with at least 55 percent local content to avoid tariffs -- five percentage points more than what automakers and the UK wanted.

EVs and hybrids will need 40 percent local content, 10 percentage points more than what the UK sought.

Until 2023, batteries can have as much as 70 percent overseas content, and EVs and hybrids can have as much as 60 percent foreign content.

From 2024 to 2026 -- when European battery production is expected to be further along -- batteries can have 50 percent overseas content, and EVs and hybrids 55 percent foreign content

It’s unclear whether Nissan’s all-electric Leaf hatchbacks built in Sunderland have enough local content to avoid levies. While Nissan welcomes the trade agreement, it will now “assess the detailed implications for our operations and products,” Azusa Momose, a company spokeswoman in Yokohama, said by email.

GinG · 18 Jan 2021 at 08:33

Joe T said:
My understanding is that the rules of origin for BEVs are fairly light and that manuafcaturers have a few more years before batteries and motors will likely need to made in the EU/UK.

First cars should be in dealers March/April.

All PSA EVs have remote warming via the app. It's great this time of year.

Nothing to do with GM.

Sounds good to me.

If I'm honest never been a fan of Vauxhall and always stayed away, however the Mokka caught our eye on a few video reviews on YouTube.

Will try make our minds up over the next week or so as don't want to be waiting too long.

Jonnycoupe · 18 Jan 2021 at 08:45

jpaul said:
t
All PSA EVs have remote warming via the app. It's great this time of year.

Nothing to do with GM.

Ha yes of course!

gailjon · 18 Jan 2021 at 08:57

Journey said:
Sadly your in this instance is utterly wasted, since the Mokka is just the Corsa but higher, and has less space than an Astra as well.

Why can't you believe that the Mokka has more space than a Corsa? RAC review says:

Predictably, materials quality is of a much higher grade than the old model. But space in the back isn't much different - though it's much better of course, than you get in a Corsa.

Jonnycoupe · 18 Jan 2021 at 16:35

I think that’s me gone fully electric.

Pleased how neat it is in that recess, can only go so far with Ohme...but didn’t want it viable from the front. just 5m isn’t long enough to reach when reverse in which is a shame.

jpaul · 18 Jan 2021 at 20:52

is that at 100% scale, or 150
... intelligent - so can you say I need X miles tomorrow, but do more if the hourly Octopus rate is less than X, which seems to be what people do with other 'appliances'

Jonnycoupe · 18 Jan 2021 at 21:09

Yeah that’s right, I’ve set to 82% by 7am tomorrow, can also select when grid is greenest.

Has the supplier API and the Jaguar API so knows where is taking energy from and what it’s sending it to, it’s already shown the charging curve which is neat.

Hyburnate · 18 Jan 2021 at 21:14

That's pretty cool, our supplier sent us the Project EV ones which are a little flaky.... I think I'd get that Anderson one for my house but that's an aesthetics thing

Jonnycoupe · 19 Jan 2021 at 00:15

Yeah a work colleague has gone Anderson as it wl be right next to his front door and i was tempted too, just with the 8m cable aswell it was looking like double the price :eek: