EV general discussion

[Jonnycoupe]

They need the margin on high feature to justify and then pay for development & investment ahead of the cheap cars, look at Tesla for a good example, atleast it means they are sustaining the business with these cars rather than the more typical loss leaders/compliance cars.

 

[RoboCod]

The ioniq 5 has characteristics of the old Renault 5 turbo to me (albeit much bigger if course).

 

[Journey]

I would consider one of these for my wife.

As in trading your wife in for one?

 

[WJA96]

I’m desperate to see it with the doors open. The Hyundai UK page says the body has no posts from which I assume it means no pillars and loads of the drawings show the side of the car completely open. So does it have suicide doors (doesn’t look like it from the position of the door handles) or could it have the sliding doors from the 45 concept? I doubt it, but there are literally no images that I can find of the car with open doors.

 

[WJA96]

In some ways there is sometimes a benefit there of making things easier.

I do agree with Robert in his most recent Citreon video, that if it shares a platform with the petrol car, then there's no real reason not to have spec parity and offer a really low cost version - Instead they seem to load them up with stuff like the massaging seats.

But for instance with the Polestar 2 at the moment, the only options are - Metallic Paint / Wheel Size / Leather / Tow Cable and nothing else because it's loaded with everything you could want/need on a car like that, and that's not a bad thing.

It also keeps the residuals strong and therefore the lease payments down because you’re not paying 100% of the options over the life of the lease or PCP.

 

[jpaul]

Well the new Ioniq 5 looks great in terms of features, and interior design.

Solar roof - check
Ability to charge another car - check
Ability to power any device up to 3.6kW - check
AR HUD - check
800v Architecture - check

Raising the bar, embarrassing the supposed superior german manufacturers.

is it cheaper than an enyaq ? isn't that the mid-price, spacey, suv, to beat
.... heat pump' series, I guess, for ioniq, but, that, and audio system (base id3 seems a bit skimpy) are also tick list requisites.

 

[chroniclard]

I’m desperate to see it with the doors open. The Hyundai UK page says the body has no posts from which I assume it means no pillars and loads of the drawings show the side of the car completely open. So does it have suicide doors (doesn’t look like it from the position of the door handles) or could it have the sliding doors from the 45 concept? I doubt it, but there are literally no images that I can find of the car with open doors.

Found some pics(or renders) of the Ioniq 6 which has suicide door at the rear, no pillars. Thinking the 5 is the same as side shots sans doors show it with no pillar.

Or.....unsure if concepts, may be sliding doors.

 

[RoboCod]

All those spinning seats... Are they actually safe? What about an impact that sends you sideways and breaks your hip?

 

[VaderDSL]

Take this with a pinch of salt, but I think these photos are supposedly of the inside of the Ioniq 5

So looks like it has pillars.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

First editions are on trend
Lower priced & spec with a single motor will probably follow

I took it as the £45k after the grant was for the cheap one, not the AWD big battery version. Did I miss something there?

£48k is a pretty expensive Hyundai either way.

 

[SDK^]

I took it as the £45k after the grant was for the cheap one, not the AWD big battery version. Did I miss something there?

£48k is a pretty expensive Hyundai either way.

From the Autocar website

the limited-edition 'Project 45', a top-of-the-range model that's available to order now, will be £45,000 including the plug-in car grant

 

[WJA96]

It’s £46,500 before the grant. £40,000 base price, plus £6500 for the Concept 45 package, minus £1000 for the deposit you pay when you reserve makes it £45,500 then take off the £3000 grant and you get £42,500.

When you say it’s a lot for a Hyundai, firstly, it’s not a Hyundai, it’s an Ioniq. I could just as easily say it’s cheap for an Ioniq. Secondly it’s a very competitive package. It’s a massive car inside. Not just big, genuinely huge. Model X big. £42,500 gets you 300 miles range, all-wheel drive, sub-6 seconds 0-100km/h - They’re seriously pitching it against the £50K competition.

What it does do is make the £41000 Kona Premium SE and eNiro 4 look REALLY expensive.

 

[WJA96]

And don’t forget that they launched the Kona about £4000 less than it is now and only put the price up when they had a 12-month waiting list.

 

[Joe T]

It’s £46,500 before the grant. £40,000 base price, plus £6500 for the Concept 45 package, minus £1000 for the deposit you pay when you reserve makes it £45,500 then take off the £3000 grant and you get £42,500.

So it's £43,500. You cant ignore the deposit!

£43,500 gets you 300 miles range, all-wheel drive, sub-6 seconds 0-100km/h - They’re seriously pitching it against the £50K competition.

What it does do is make the £41000 Kona Premium SE and eNiro 4 look REALLY expensive.

Fixed that for you.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

From the Autocar website

Thanks, I certainly did miss something!

That makes more sense and is looking to be a more competitive package than I originally thought.

@WJA96 I agree the electric Kona is silly money for what it is, particularly with its relatively cheap interior.

But that doesn’t suddenly change that this isn’t still a pretty expensive car all said and done. While ICE cars have this price tag, no one ever pays it, there always discounted significantly which is rarely the case with electric. You also don’t typically associate Hyundai with a more premium offering, that’s never really been their ‘bread and butter’.

That said it does look reasonably competitive if the interior quality is up to scratch. They know how to built cars so it really comes down to the materials as I’m sure the general fit and finish will be fine.

Things could get interesting in this segment (not that we needed any more cars in the segment).

 

[Joe T]

In some ways there is sometimes a benefit there of making things easier.

I do agree with Robert in his most recent Citreon video, that if it shares a platform with the petrol car, then there's no real reason not to have spec parity and offer a really low cost version - Instead they seem to load them up with stuff like the massaging seats.

But for instance with the Polestar 2 at the moment, the only options are - Metallic Paint / Wheel Size / Leather / Tow Cable and nothing else because it's loaded with everything you could want/need on a car like that, and that's not a bad thing.

They need the margin on high feature to justify and then pay for development & investment ahead of the cheap cars, look at Tesla for a good example, atleast it means they are sustaining the business with these cars rather than the more typical loss leaders/compliance cars.

As frequently happens Robert's lack of understanding about the car industry, and false belief that battery cells are dirt cheap now are doing him no favours.

The reasons EVs can sometimes have high options is:

1. Buyers paying a high price for a car expect a certain level of comfort/features, regardless of whether they are buying ICE or BEV
2. The features are often fairly low cost to build, so adding them doesnt add that much to the price if the manufacturer forgoes the margin which would be available should they be listed as optional extras.
3. It helps with the price walk from a ICE to BEV if the buyer is also feeling that they are getting a lot more car for the money, irrespective of powertrain

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I don’t think what he is asking for is unreasonable and he doesn’t suggest that they should be the same price right now. What he is saying is the price of entry to electric is currently higher than it needs to be.

Specifically he is saying is that where cars share the same platform, you should be able to buy the basic C4 with the EV power train for a price. The point is you just can’t, you have to spend a shedload more.

There is clearly a market for electric and there is clearly a market for low spec cars, it’s not unreasonable to expect there is a market for low spec electric cars. They would lower the barrier for entry which is clearly an issue for a lot of people.

The main reason there isn’t low spec cars is because currently the mainstream manufacturers only need to sell a small proportion of electric to meet their emissions targets, they know they can sell everyone they make with little discount, so they load them up to make the most profit while still milking as much out of the ICE as they possibly can.

I’m not ignorant of those facts and I know it’s ultimately market forces interacting with emissions regs causing it, that doesn’t mean I have to like it...

 

[SDK^]

But that doesn’t suddenly change that this isn’t still a pretty expensive car all said and done. While ICE cars have this price tag, no one ever pays it, there always discounted significantly which is rarely the case with electric. You also don’t typically associate Hyundai with a more premium offering, that’s never really been their ‘bread and butter’.
.

It's not a premium offering. Have you seen the prices of those - Audi, Mercedes, BMW and Jag are all £60k+ options.

Also, few people are paying 'list' for EV's,
Most are benefiting from the current zero tax (increasing 1%, up to 2%) so are paying less overall than the equivalent value ICE car.

 

[Joe T]

I don’t think what he is asking for is unreasonable and he doesn’t suggest that they should be the same price right now. What he is saying is the price of entry to electric is currently higher than it needs to be.

Specifically he is saying is that where cars share the same platform, you should be able to buy the basic C4 with the EV power train for a price. The point is you just can’t, you have to spend a shedload more.

There is clearly a market for electric and there is clearly a market for low spec cars, it’s not unreasonable to expect there is a market for low spec electric cars. They would lower the barrier for entry which is clearly an issue for a lot of people.

The main reason there isn’t low spec cars is because the mainstream manufacturers only need to sell a small proportion of electric to meet their emissions targets, they know they can sell everyone they make with little discount, so they load them up to make the most profit while still milking as much out of the ICE as they possibly can.

If the EVs were made lower spec they would be barely any cheaper, that's the point. You'd then have an expensive car with no kit on it.

 

[WJA96]

So it's £43,500. You cant ignore the deposit!



Fixed that for you.

I didn’t miss the deposit. It’s £46500 (£40,000 plus £6500 for the special launch package), minus £1000 for the deposit makes £45,500 minus £3000 makes £42,500. The breakdown is on the PayPal Order screen on Hyundai UKs website. I haven’t ordered one, but I just went through the process to see if any were still available.