Soldato
- Joined
- 6 Jan 2012
- Posts
- 5,505
Margins! Hence Chester lose out.
Leasing
- Thread starter BuckOff
- Start date
Deleted User 298457
Deleted User 298457
Purchase outright with a 3% bank loan (or whatever is going nowadays).
Agree with the above that leasing is generally the most expensive, but if you get a deal its a cracker. I have a Leon Cupra currently on lease, £205 a month on an 8k pa 3+23, which was an insane deal at the time. Looking at current prices of £300 plus I'd never have bothered
Agree with comments here, only lease if you are prepared to take whatever bargain deals are going, if you want a specific model it's highly unlikely to have a good offer on.
So instead of considering just a VW GTD see what other performance hatces are available at a knockdown price (Leon FR, Focus ST, 308 GTI, CTR, Octavia vRS etc). Even then you might find you need to relax criteria somewhere, perhaps accepting a weaker engine to get a good deal.
So instead of considering just a VW GTD see what other performance hatces are available at a knockdown price (Leon FR, Focus ST, 308 GTI, CTR, Octavia vRS etc). Even then you might find you need to relax criteria somewhere, perhaps accepting a weaker engine to get a good deal.
My first ever lease goes back next month - a Seat Tarraco Xcellence. £285 per month and £500 initial payment, all road fund, tyres, servicing and break down included.
I'd never pay £35k for a new motor, so it's nice to be able drive brand new and all i do is put diesel in - nothing else to worry about.
My next lease is a SKODA KODIAQ ESTATE 1.5 TSI Sport Line 5dr DSG [7 Seat] for £303 per month.
I've also got my inlaws a Skoda Kamiq, no deposit and £155 per month.
Again, chase the deal, not the car, but i am more than happy with leasing.
I'd never pay £35k for a new motor, so it's nice to be able drive brand new and all i do is put diesel in - nothing else to worry about.
My next lease is a SKODA KODIAQ ESTATE 1.5 TSI Sport Line 5dr DSG [7 Seat] for £303 per month.
I've also got my inlaws a Skoda Kamiq, no deposit and £155 per month.
Again, chase the deal, not the car, but i am more than happy with leasing.
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Glad to see others saying this. I did the maths before I bought my car recently and concluded that PCP/leasing is ludicrously expensive in the long run compared to outright ownership.
Deleted User 298457
Deleted User 298457
The variables are very specific to the purchaser. You only need to look one post above yours where the maths sounds stellar - £155 a month, no deposit, for a spankers Skoda Kamiq? No chance anyone is beating that by buying new, maintaining at their own expense, and then re-selling.
So you go out and buy a brand new car. How long would you keep it? How much would it depreciate in that time, what's its trade value, not the price is sells on a forecourt of a dealer second hand?
You pay cash, no finance, so what discount would you expect?
You are buying a car that has also been subsidised by the manufacturers on the basis it is sold via a 2-3 year lease only, providing good 2nd hand stock down the line, but it can't be sold to cash buyers with say 30% off normal price discount.
or
You have a car that is built around a finance program, so low APR subsidised by the manufacturer to make the monthlies low because 96% of people buy new cars with some form of finance.
Truth is most people do not buy a new car with cash, they just don't. I am a superb credit risk, the 3 vendors who measure our credit records suggest people want to throw cash at me but I can't get money for less than 4%, frankly it's a struggle to get it less than 5% these days on cars as the rules have become tighter.
Now, if you buy a new car, run it for 10 years and expect it to be of little value at the end then fine, pay your cash and enjoy your car. Fact is for most people it's a 2-3-4 year thing. They want a new car, they can't afford 50K drop in cash so they MUST finance in some form.
It is very nuanced (like life) so implying it's cheaper to buy outright is fine, but it isn't for many people.
Most people are happy to pay for the convenience these days, so leasing is an ever-growing thing. Your average person can get a brand new car every 2 or 3 years while paying something that doesn't bust the wallet of said average person. If it suits them, that's fine, but I agree with the point that it's the most expensive way to own a car.
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On 100 grand supercars maybe, but on conventional cars it's much easier to get lower than that.
Let's give an example with some very simple maths that I will probably get wrong, but might help to form a picture....
My E Class, AMG 220D
List Price circa £41,000
£3000 first payment, £314 a month for 24 months, £286 for 6 months = £12,252 cost to use for 30 months (I extended it for 6 months as no point getting out of it)
Current prices of those cars sold privately, not on dealer forecourts as they carry margin is around £19,000, so let's say £20,000 to give good value example.
So simple maths £21,000 in depreciation based on selling it at £20,000
Now let's say they gave £5000 discount when new, which they were not for a cash buyer.
£16,000 depreciation
My total cost is £12,252
I give it back don't have to worry about people coming to my house to chip me. I don't have to debate with dealers it's value. I don't have the mental attachment to the car so can relax wherever I leave it.
This is the reality of most peoples decisions.
My E Class, AMG 220D
List Price circa £41,000
£3000 first payment, £314 a month for 24 months, £286 for 6 months = £12,252 cost to use for 30 months (I extended it for 6 months as no point getting out of it)
Current prices of those cars sold privately, not on dealer forecourts as they carry margin is around £19,000, so let's say £20,000 to give good value example.
So simple maths £21,000 in depreciation based on selling it at £20,000
Now let's say they gave £5000 discount when new, which they were not for a cash buyer.
£16,000 depreciation
My total cost is £12,252
I give it back don't have to worry about people coming to my house to chip me. I don't have to debate with dealers it's value. I don't have the mental attachment to the car so can relax wherever I leave it.
This is the reality of most peoples decisions.
Yes true, over £60K funding its different.
I'd be surprised if £155 is a maintained lease - the maintenance costs ought to be near enough equal over equivalent ownership periods.
Bearing in mind the cheapest new Kamiq can be had from £15k, £155 per month is clearly not a bad deal but realistically how much is the new one going to lose over 2 or 3 years? They might absolutely tank in value but given the popularity of the type of car, i'd have thought even WBAC would still be giving you a half decent figure for a low mileage (guessing the lease is 5k or 8k pa) one after 2 or 3 years. It's probably closer to 'going rate' than 'amazing deal' than it might first appear.
You are right, inc deposit its £216 a month. Was just a rare deal I think.
Who is paying list price for an E Class? Mercedes isn't my thing but I doubt the deals are far off the biggest competitor - the 520d.
You can right now get nearly £11k off list on a 520d M Sport MHT - taking it down to £33k from a list price of £44k*. I'd imagine similar deals can be had on the E Class.
This is halved the depreciation figure you gave. How can you possibly give an example with an assumption as flawed as using list price with zero discount?
*As an aside, what a lovely example of how completely ridiculous list prices are. A £33k car for which you'll pay tax like it was a £40k car even though you've paid nothing like £40k on it, because a made up number in a brochure says '£43800'. So frustrating.
What I think this demonstrates more than anything is how deal specific leasing is.
If you were absolutely set on getting an E220d AMG Line again now:
£38k via carwow as a 'purchase'. £37.5k via broadspeed.
Having skimmed a few popular lease sites, the cheapest 'total cost' i've found so far to lease one for 2 years is £21,000, 3 years is £24,000.
I'm sure there's cheaper out there if you were prepared to spend time hunting around for one but I doubt it'll be worlds apart.
You'd need to be looking at some seriously crap future values on a PCP for it to make sense to lease this time around.
Nope
I went into Mercedes dealers and BMW dealers at the time. None could get me to a place that made it cheaper, none.
Indeed and my consistent point, it is a time and car thing, right place at right time etc.
Also I said about 5K discount off the 41K list was where it was at. The reason I did not simply get another E Class was that at the time, with a new model year car arriving, it was £200 a month more, which was crazy and that was with a bigger first payment up front making it massively more expensive to lease a new version of the same car. Also the appeal of 24 months is you can get into something else if you chose wrong sooner.
To add I would always take a 5 series over an E class I think, but there were no 5 series deals at the time that came close so E class it was. Can't be choosy really, gotta go with what is on offer. The deal was actually £295ish a month, but I paid £20 a month more to not have a white one
This is a tangent which has been done to death on here, and one which i am reluctant to go down. Why on earth, when raising 6 figures (something which is not unfamiliar to me), would you raise that at those frankly ridiculous rates? Building societies/banks will throw a relatively "small" amount such as that required to buy a high end car at someone such as yourself, at well under 2% if you secure against something more sensible - i assume you must own some property along with more than adequate equity?
Genuinely, as i know you must be a smart person, why would you consider those rates when capital is so easy to realise elsewhere?
