Greenlizard0 PL & Championship Football Thread ** spoilers ** [30th Apr - 2nd May 2021]

Well you insinuated that most fans only care about the club spending money and everything else is just not important next to that. So why did the ESL face such widespread opposition when it would have lead to much higher financial power for those in it?
 
Shamikebab said:
Well you insinuated that most fans only care about the club spending money and everything else is just not important next to that. So why did the ESL face such widespread opposition when it would have lead to much higher financial power for those in it?
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I literally answered that question in my 2nd paragraph.
 
mmj_uk said:
Match should have been forfeited
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No it shouldn't, game needs to be rescheduled. As United fan I'm quite happy to have points deducted/ large fine/ play rest of the home games at a neutral ground as punishment but the opposition team shouldn't get free points out of it, that wouldn't be fair on rest of the league.

Funny how many Liverpool fans forgot about their attacks on opposition team's busses in recent years, setting Liver building on fire and are acting like Liverpool fans are holier than thou.
 
Shamikebab said:
No you didn't :confused:
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Yes I did but I'll say it again. A large percentage of football supporters want to have their cake and eat it - they expect their club to spend more and more each and every year but then act offended when owners come up with ways to pay for their demands.
 
Right so it doesn't appear this match will happen today.

bayo000 said:
No it shouldn't, game needs to be rescheduled. As United fan I'm quite happy to have points deducted/ large fine/ play rest of the home games at a neutral ground as punishment but the opposition team shouldn't get free points out of it, that wouldn't be fair on rest of the league.

Funny how many Liverpool fans forgot about their attacks on opposition team's busses in recent years, setting Liver building on fire and are acting like Liverpool fans are holier than thou.
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No, it needs forfeiting. There's no space to reschedule. What has some tool shooting a firework at a statue got to do with United fans breaking into the stadium?
 
BaZ87 said:
Yes I did but I'll say it again. A large percentage of football supporters want to have their cake and eat it - they expect their club to spend more and more each and every year but then act offended when owners come up with ways to pay for their demands.
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That's not a why Baz, that's just a statement. As I said, if you claim that fans only care about spending more money then why was the ESL so largely protested? Even by clubs that are doing well and spending.
 
Shamikebab said:
That's not a why Baz, that's just a statement. As I said, if you claim that fans only care about spending more money then why was the ESL so largely protested? Even by clubs that are doing well and spending.
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No, that is why. It's like a bum who doesn't want to go out and get a job but complains when his benefits are cut. Your reply would be go out and get a job that pays more but they won't and the reason why is because they're self entitled bums.

Too many football supporters are self entitled - they want everything but complain about how it's paid for. Until this changes then football won't change.
 
JordanPickford said:
No, it needs forfeiting. There's no space to reschedule.
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Personally I suspect the match will be rescheduled toward the end of the season, thereby avoiding any potential worries involving European positions. If they wait til then its quite likely that Liverpools European status will already be resolved, making it a dead rubber match for Liverpool and Utds is already resolved, making it a dead rubber match for them too.
 
As a United fan I’d agree with forfeiting and possible deductions.

Hopefully then the idiots will think twice in future and realise the Glazers couldn’t give a crap.
 
I don't necessarily think that forfeiting the game is correct as United have no part in what happened. You can say it was a large number of United fans causing trouble but unless there were 10,000 there causing trouble then it was a very small minority. The people that should be punished (and severely) are those that broke into the stadium and were essentially rioting. I said this earlier. Lifetime ban from the stadium and the police should handle any criminal matters.

I agree with Baz up to a point that the fans are fickle. They should have been protesting constantly for the last 14 years. The protests have come and gone as our form has wavered between **** and half decent. That smacks of fans who don't care so much about the underlying issues and only care when it effects their enjoyment of the team they support.

The Glazers bought the club and lumped about £750m debt onto it and 14 years later that debt sits at about £450m. Considering the growth in revenue in that time thats appalling. The amount of money that has exited the club is embarrassing. Probably the bigger issue is that they have clearly prioritised the monetary side of the business over the football side which is utterly baffling as they have (to their credit) put a large amount of money into transfers. They have run the business side of things brilliantly and the football side of things like a bunch of toddlers taking turns playing FM.

Anyway, back on topic. I think a lot of people who do these things are simply bored and are oiks. They hide behind "a cause" to disguise the fact that it gives them a buzz to basically riot. We have seen this at various times during lockdown. A bored population that has little to do is a dangerous thing.
 
fez said:
I don't necessarily think that forfeiting the game is correct as United have no part in what happened. You can say it was a large number of United fans causing trouble but unless there were 10,000 there causing trouble then it was a very small minority. The people that should be punished (and severely) are those that broke into the stadium and were essentially rioting. I said this earlier. Lifetime ban from the stadium and the police should handle any criminal matters.
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Man Utd KNEW these protests were going to happen, it was all planned in advance. If as you say that it was only a 'very small minority' causing trouble, then how have they so easily gotten into the stadium with the club and police hours later still unable to control the situation. Didn't look like 'a minority' from the pictures from the stadium. It is very clearly Man Utd's responsibility and their failure that has helped lead to this. Of course it is the club that heavily punished, you can't just allow clubs to postpone games when it suits them and affect other teams.

Unfortunately we all know how spineless the Premier league are so very little will happen apart from more money exchanging hands in fines.
 
I suppose it's a definition of "minority",

As a % of United fans it certainly is a minority. How many were there a thousand maybe? That's not much more than 1% of fans who go to home matches when we have crowds.
 
Stumble Bum said:
Man Utd KNEW these protests were going to happen, it was all planned in advance. If as you say that it was only a 'very small minority' causing trouble, then how have they so easily gotten into the stadium with the club and police hours later still unable to control the situation. Didn't look like 'a minority' from the pictures from the stadium. It is very clearly Man Utd's responsibility and their failure that has helped lead to this. allow clubs to postpone games when it suits them and affect other teams.

Unfortunately we all know how spineless the Premier league are so very little will happen apart from more money exchanging hands in fines.
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So what would you have United do? They don't have a private militia that can fend off bottle wielding knobs who are intent on breaking in. Look at what has happened over the summer? I guess the police are to blame for anyone rioting then because they knew that there were going to be protests and demonstrations...

I don't know how you think these things work but its not as simple as draughting in a few thousand police to crack some heads and kick them out. This isn't the 70's. Anything the police do is scrutinised and punished if they have been found to have done anything they perhaps shouldn't have. The police are fighting thugs with one arm tied behind their back.


Stumble Bum said:
Of course it is the club that heavily punished, you can't just allow clubs to postpone games when it suits them and affect other teams.
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In what way does this postponement suit United even a little bit? We were playing on Sunday and our next game was Thursday evening with a 6-2 lead. United will have been desperate to play this game and won't want the worry of when it will be shoehorned into the schedule. You are talking like they wanted this or had any real say in it happening.
 
fez said:
Anything the police do is scrutinised and punished if they have been found to have done anything they perhaps shouldn't have.
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There is literally footage of police dragging a fan behind a van and beating him up, I haven't seen it make any news coverage yet.
 
@fez Utd are responsible for securing the ground and surrounding areas, they failed to do that. We're told that only a small number of fans were violent, in which case preventing supporters from entering the stadium should have been fairly straight forward. This wasn't a surprise protest, they knew it was happening and should have prepared - as I read in one article on Sunday night, OT is one of the easiest stadiums to secure due to the fact it's not in the middle of a housing estate. The stadium could and should have been cordoned off - if small numbers wanted to try to break through that could have been handled by the police.

Despite Utd being responsible for the game being postponed, it won't be forfeited. It's too big a game to the PL and broadcasters for it not to be played.
 
Shamikebab said:
There is literally footage of police dragging a fan behind a van and beating him up, I haven't seen it make any news coverage yet.
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I'm sure there will be repercussions for it.

BaZ87 said:
@fez Utd are responsible for securing the ground and surrounding areas, they failed to do that. We're told that only a small number of fans were violent, in which case preventing supporters from entering the stadium should have been fairly straight forward. This wasn't a surprise protest, they knew it was happening and should have prepared - as I read in one article on Sunday night, OT is one of the easiest stadiums to secure due to the fact it's not in the middle of a housing estate. The stadium could and should have been cordoned off - if small numbers wanted to try to break through that could have been handled by the police.
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Of course they are responsible for that but there is only so much they can do against hundreds/thousands of people that want to break in. You don't have to be violent to break into a massive stadium. People managed to break into the US capitol building a while ago without much effort. 99/100 they would have protested peacefully and the handling of it would have been fine. They didn't expect people to break into the stadium or turn violent and were unprepared for it. There is only so much you can do without treating any protest as a potential large scale riot. The police/United don't have the resources to do that. Police are understaffed and have to be reactionary. They can't preempt worse case scenarios with limited resources.
 
BaZ87 said:
@fez Despite Utd being responsible for the game being postponed, it won't be forfeited. It's too big a game to the PL and broadcasters for it not to be played.
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IMO the only situation where any game gets forfeited is if the players/ coaching stuff do something that puts the game taking place into a risk. It's not fair on them or indeed other 18 clubs in the league for one team to benefit from "free" points for not even kicking a ball. It could also set a dangerous precedence where fans will know they could disrupt a rival team's game and get them to drop points.

Say the game gets forfeited, you get the 3 points. Liverpool finishes 4th, one point ahead of 5th and 2 points ahead of 6th. Would you feel that you deserve that European spot even though you didn't play as many games as the other teams?
 
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