What causes my PC stuck after power on & how to fix it?

Diano · 4 Oct 2021 at 16:58

What causes my PC stuck after power on & how to fix it?

My PC :
Desktop Acer Aspire T3-715
Windows 10 Home 64-bit, updated to 21H1
Intel Core i5 Processor 6400
NVidia GeForce GTX745 4GB
Hard Drive : SATA3 1TB & SSD 128GB
Memory : DDR4 8GB
DVD-Super Multi drive
Card Reader
Integrated LAN 10/100/1000
Monitor : SamSung SyncMaster 933sw

Installations:
1.Windows 10 Home
2.Photoshop cc 2021
And other small apps such as Faststone Photo Viewer, SuperAntiSpyware, etc.

Uses:
Editing photographs, RAW files, shot by Canon DSLR & Sony a7 mark2.
Digitizing negative images & editing them, RAW files.
An hour or two on internet, basically YouTube, everyday.

Environment:
In a suburb on a hill, there is always a breeze or air conditioning & the room is clean & spacious.

What happened :
About two months ago, Windows updated to 21H1.
Not long after the update, my PC started having issues.
At first, there was no mouse or dead mouse after booting into Windows.
Then, crashes at work & BSODs & re-starts automatically . . . .
Twelve days ago, the machine was stuck 2~3 minutes after power on, stuck at "acer" logo.

The situation now :
When power cabled is connected to the machine & start button is pressed,
1.start button turns power on,
2.light in front panel is on,
3.CPU & graphic card fans turn,
4.monitor lights up & shows "acer" logo & stops at this point,
5.Press the start button again, it turns the power off.
Note:Except for these 5 functions, EVERYTHING ELSE IS DEAD.
Here is the photo:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NNTFuoEE5Lz5Pmx58

Tests I have done (learnt from Googe search in the last ten days) :
1.Test each device, disconnect it & turn power on.
2.Test the CMOS battery,
2A.Disconnect power, then press & hold the power button for 3 minutes,
2B.Disconnect power, take the battery out of its socket for 8 minutes,
3.Test BIOS, press start button on & off quickly & repeatedly.
4.Test BIOS, disconnect SATA & SSD then turn power,
5.Tesd BIOS, disconnect all the devices, connect power only, turn power on,
6.Test main board, pull RAM & graphic card out, then switch power on,
7.Test the monitor, change monitors, 2 other brands & specs,
8.Test the keyboard, change keyboards,
9.Test the mouse, change mouse.

Result of these tests:
1.Only test 6. ended with a positive result, a continuing "B" signal.
2.All the other tests did not make any difference.
3.There is one test I did not do, i.e., to jump the BIOS. There is no cap on the pins & they look rusted.

It seems that there is nothing I can do anymore.

Help, please?

Thank you very much.

Diano

whitecrook · 4 Oct 2021 at 18:01

Do any capacitors on the board look bulging? You say there’s rust on the board this doesn’t sound good. Any pics of inside?

do you have access to another pc?

can you boot the system from usb orncd using a live cd or even a windows installdisk

It looks like h/w problem but if you can. Oot another sustem it rules it out

Craig_d1 · 4 Oct 2021 at 18:07

So seems it started after windows did an update?
So boot drive 128gb ssd, the sata drive for storage correct?
But you can get into bios correct?

Alan McFall · 4 Oct 2021 at 20:04

Ignore me

Diano · 5 Oct 2021 at 03:00

whitecrook said:
Do any capacitors on the board look bulging? You say there’s rust on the board this doesn’t sound good. Any pics of inside?

do you have access to another pc?

can you boot the system from usb orncd using a live cd or even a windows installdisk

It looks like h/w problem but if you can. Oot another sustem it rules it out

Thank you.

No capacitor looks bulging or rusted.

The rust is not on the board. It is the 4 pins "look" rusted. This is referring to the BIOS jumper. On the photo of motherboard of T3-715, Acer put out, there is a cap on the pins. No such a cap on the pins on the board in my T3-715. I wonder they had a cap ever.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/E4pYYPDXLxqZhgCHA

Pics? Yes.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/hFe4nfeB5uKfX6TH7

No. I do have access to another pc. I do have another Acer T3-715, but it is not usable now. It need some repair.

"can you boot the system from usb orncd using a live cd or even a windows installdisk"
No. Right now, the only items functioning are :
1.start button can turn power on & off,
2.light in front panel is on,
3.CPU & graphic card fans turn,
4.monitor lights up & shows "acer" logo & stops at this point,
EVERYTHING ELSE IS DEAD. All USB ports & DVD drive are all dead.

.

Diano · 5 Oct 2021 at 03:45

Craig_d1 said:
So seems it started after windows did an update?
So boot drive 128gb ssd, the sata drive for storage correct?
But you can get into bios correct?

Thank you.

Yes. It has something to do with Windows update but I do not have any slightest idea what that is.
The machine was purchase in early 2016. For almost five years, it did not have any issue.
In 2020, around April, Windows updated to 20H1.
Two weeks after that update, Windows crashed.
Bob OMB's WinPE solved the problem.
About two months ago, Windows updated to 21H1. Issues happened again one after another. Finally, a dead machine.

"So boot drive 128gb ssd, the sata drive for storage correct?"
Yes. Correct.

"But you can get into bios correct?"
I do not know, really.
I learnt from Google search that BIOS & Boot are two separated things. No boot if BIOS not functioning.
Right now, when power is on, screen is on & runs to "acer" logo.
What makes the monitor turn on? BIOS? or Boot?
I do not this it is BIOS. The reason for this is that OEM's logo cannot be in BIOS. It is with Windows. Correct?
If so, BIOS in this PC is good & working because it tells boot to start booting but booting stops at the logo.
But, another fact does not support this.
Every device is disconnected or disabled, only the power cable is plugged & monitor is connected to the machine, then press start button & power on.
There should be some indications showing on the monitor that BIOS is reacting.
None, nothing.
I am just rambling on but having no confidence whether it is right or wrong.

To your questions "But you can get into bios correct?"
My answer is No. I can not get into BIOS.

Craig_d1 · 5 Oct 2021 at 09:10

You get into bios when you turn on the pc. As soon as it turns on start hitting the Del key or F2 key(they're the 2 that get me into bios on my machine...checked photo, DEL button for you)...you do it as soon as you turn on machine, so screen will still be blank, I get a quick logo appear and then screen goes blank again, then I go into bios...the bios controls the pc. Just trying to determine if your motherboard is working fully. As your screen turns on and doesn't show anything when you turn the pc on, it shows a signal is being sent to the monitor, that's why it at least turns on(regardless of image). Just checked photo..you get acer logo appear, so then monitor is working, and gpu is working(otherwise you wouldn't get the logo)
Checked other photo's too..there's a lot of dust in the pc, might want to give it a bit of a clean too
If you can't get into bios at all, then read this thread below from someone who had same problem...(I'd remove the 2032 battery at the bottom of mobo and replace it also with a new one..when you take battery out, turn off pc 1st and unplug power cable to psu, then after battery is removed, leave it for 30mins or so before putting new one in.should reset the CMOS and bios
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/wont-boot-to-os-and-cant-enter-bios.2690169/
If you can get bios/CMOS to work, then 1 step closer, either by doing a fresh install of windows onto your 128gb, or by entering windows in safe mode if it permits and doing a restore, or their an option to unistall latest update
Can't believe they only put 1 stick of ram in these machines

whitecrook · 5 Oct 2021 at 09:46

So you can't eject DVD drive ?

Maybe you PSU or power regulation is failed ?

can you take PSU from other machine and try it in here ?

Can you take the HDD from other machine and boot it in this machine ?

Alan McFall · 5 Oct 2021 at 10:16

Diano said:
On the photo of motherboard of T3-715, Acer put out, there is a cap on the pins. No such a cap on the pins on the board in my T3-715. I wonder they had a cap ever.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/E4pYYPDXLxqZhgCHA

The jumper would have been in with the motherboard bits and bobs, with it only being a 2 pin connection the jumper basically hangs on one pin when in the off state so can easily fall off in transit, that's why they sometimes come in a separate little plastic bag.

Diano · 5 Oct 2021 at 14:38

Craig_d1 said:
You get into bios when you turn on the pc. As soon as it turns on start hitting the Del key or F2 key(they're the 2 that get me into bios on my machine...checked photo, DEL button for you)...you do it as soon as you turn on machine, so screen will still be blank, I get a quick logo appear and then screen goes blank again, then I go into bios...the bios controls the pc. Just trying to determine if your motherboard is working fully. As your screen turns on and doesn't show anything when you turn the pc on, it shows a signal is being sent to the monitor, that's why it at least turns on(regardless of image). Just checked photo..you get acer logo appear, so then monitor is working, and gpu is working(otherwise you wouldn't get the logo)
Checked other photo's too..there's a lot of dust in the pc, might want to give it a bit of a clean too
If you can't get into bios at all, then read this thread below from someone who had same problem...(I'd remove the 2032 battery at the bottom of mobo and replace it also with a new one..when you take battery out, turn off pc 1st and unplug power cable to psu, then after battery is removed, leave it for 30mins or so before putting new one in.should reset the CMOS and bios
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/wont-boot-to-os-and-cant-enter-bios.2690169/
If you can get bios/CMOS to work, then 1 step closer, either by doing a fresh install of windows onto your 128gb, or by entering windows in safe mode if it permits and doing a restore, or their an option to unistall latest update
Can't believe they only put 1 stick of ram in these machines

Thank you.

"You get into bios...Del key or F2 key..."
Yes, if the system is normal.
No, keyboard is dead. No use to press any key.

"...then I go into bios..."
What other ways to go into BIOS if keyboard is dead?

"...if your motherboard is working fully."
I do not know.
There is something unusual. With RAM and Graphic card in their slots, there is no "B" signal when this PC is power on.
There is a continuous "B" sound if RAM & Graphic card are pulled out of their slots.

"...there's a lot of dust..."
Have already cleaned, RAM, GPU, SSD, CPU, and the board.

"...If you can't get into bios at all,"
No, I cannot.

"...remove the 2032 battery ... replace it also with a new one..."
I would be glad to do this if I could tell in anyway that the battery or BIOS is bad. Or, do you think replace it anyway?
"If you can get bios/CMOS to work,"
No. Right now there is nothing works or functions.

Diano · 5 Oct 2021 at 14:40

whitecrook said:
So you can't eject DVD drive ?

Maybe you PSU or power regulation is failed ?

can you take PSU from other machine and try it in here ?

Can you take the HDD from other machine and boot it in this machine ?

Thank you.

"So you can't eject DVD drive ?"
That is correct. The DVD drive is dead, just like other devices.

"Maybe you PSU or power regulation is failed ?"
Any way to make sure whether it is or not?

"can you take PSU from other machine and try it in here ?"
No, I cannot.

"Can you take the HDD from other machine and boot it in this machine ?"
No. I cannot.

Craig_d1 · 5 Oct 2021 at 15:36

Diano said:
Thank you.

"You get into bios...Del key or F2 key..."
Yes, if the system is normal.
No, keyboard is dead. No use to press any key.

"...then I go into bios..."
What other ways to go into BIOS if keyboard is dead?

"...if your motherboard is working fully."
I do not know.
There is something unusual. With RAM and Graphic card in their slots, there is no "B" signal when this PC is power on.
There is a continuous "B" sound if RAM & Graphic card are pulled out of their slots.

"...there's a lot of dust..."
Have already cleaned, RAM, GPU, SSD, CPU, and the board.

"...If you can't get into bios at all,"
No, I cannot.

"...remove the 2032 battery ... replace it also with a new one..."
I would be glad to do this if I could tell in anyway that the battery or BIOS is bad. Or, do you think replace it anyway?
"If you can get bios/CMOS to work,"
No. Right now there is nothing works or functions.

I'd replace the battery anyway...they are cheap, only cost £1 or so over here so not much outlay..failure of cmos battery can mean i/o devices failing(such as keyboard etc) and can also prevent booting into windows..battery should last 10 years or so, but it's a cheap to replace and will mean one thing to cross off list of possible problems. If you don't have spare parts etc and don't want to get them(understandable for an old pc), then taking to a pc shop might be cheapest option where they can at least swap out some parts to see what works etc

Diano · 6 Oct 2021 at 03:27

Craig_d1 said:
I'd replace the battery anyway...they are cheap, only cost £1 or so over here so not much outlay..failure of cmos battery can mean i/o devices failing(such as keyboard etc) and can also prevent booting into windows..battery should last 10 years or so, but it's a cheap to replace and will mean one thing to cross off list of possible problems. If you don't have spare parts etc and don't want to get them(understandable for an old pc), then taking to a pc shop might be cheapest option where they can at least swap out some parts to see what works etc

Thank you.

What puzzles me is this (the following is not what I know but what I have learnt from Google Search in the past 2 weeks):
1.BIOS starts everything. No device starts to function if BIOS does not command first.
2.SSD-Windows-Boot receives command from BIOS then starts the boot process.
3.If monitor is lit & runs to the point showing brand logo, it means that boot has already begun but failed at a certain point.
4.If 3. is correct, the failure is only booting.
5.The fact now is that EVERY DEVICE IS FAILED which means BIOS is failed.
6.Is it possible that BIOS failed right after giving command to boot?
IS THIS POSSIBLE?
Again, this not what I know, only learnt all of these stuff from Google Search in the past two weeks.

What do you think, please?

Diano

VersionMonkey · 6 Oct 2021 at 11:27

Diano said:
Thank you.

What puzzles me is this (the following is not what I know but what I have learnt from Google Search in the past 2 weeks):
1.BIOS starts everything. No device starts to function if BIOS does not command first.
2.SSD-Windows-Boot receives command from BIOS then starts the boot process.
3.If monitor is lit & runs to the point showing brand logo, it means that boot has already begun but failed at a certain point.
4.If 3. is correct, the failure is only booting.
5.The fact now is that EVERY DEVICE IS FAILED which means BIOS is failed.
6.Is it possible that BIOS failed right after giving command to boot?
IS THIS POSSIBLE?
Again, this not what I know, only learnt all of these stuff from Google Search in the past two weeks.

What do you think, please?

Diano

Your point 3 is not correct. Although it depends on what you mean by "boot".

When you switch on the PC the BIOS goes through a "Power On Self Test" or POST. During that process the BIOS will initialise each component in the system e.g. CPU, memory, GPU, SATA controller, disks/SSDs etc.

It will a perform a basic test of each component as it intiialises it and if a critical component fails (e.g. the CPU or memory), then it will stop. Older motherboards had a small speaker directly on the board and would beep in a pattern to indicate the problem component. Newer/more expensive boards have LEDs or even small alpha-numeric displays to indicate the problem. If the GPU has been initialised when the problem occurs it will generally also print a message to the screen.

Once all the the components have passed the testing, and if there is a speaker on the motherboard, that's when you get a single short beep to indicate the successful completion of the tests. Only then will the BIOS attempt to find an operating system to boot.

When you see the Acer logo, the BIOS has reached the stage of intiialising the GPU, but usually still has more tests to do; so it is not an indication that the boot has begun.

When Windows starts, it pulls its boot image from the BIOS and the result is generally that you will usually see the "Press <Del> to Enter BIOS" message disappear (because it isn't part of the image), then the little dots appear once the Windows boot is underway.

You wrote earlier that:

Diano said:
4.Test BIOS, disconnect SATA & SSD then turn power,

Diano said:
There is something unusual. With RAM and Graphic card in their slots, there is no "B" signal when this PC is power on.
There is a continuous "B" sound if RAM & Graphic card are pulled out of their slots.

So, you get a beep if you remove the RAM & GPU, but no beep if they are present? That, plus disconnecting all SATA devices not making any difference suggests that the POST is not completing and the BIOS is not getting as far as trying to boot Windows at all.

I would concur that you should replace the battery. When you get the new battery, the process you follow should be (1) remove the power cord from the PC, (2) remove the old battery, (3) short the clear CMOS pins for a few seconds, (4) insert the new battery, (5) plug the PC back in and try to turn it on.

A couple of other diagnostic questions:

What sort of keyboard are you using - USB or PS/2 (assuming the PC has a PS/2 port)? Also, do the Num lock, Caps Lock and Scroll Lock lights on the keyboard flash at any point after turning on the PC?
Does the activity light on the DVD drive flash?

Diano · 7 Oct 2021 at 03:12

VersionMonkey

Thank you very much.

Referring to what you said on 6 Oct 2021, "Just trying to determine if your motherboard is working fully."
How do I determine if my motherboard is working fully?

The following is what I have done as tests trying to learn whether the motherboard is good or bad:
1."The board is in good conditions if there is a beep signal when power is on ... " Someone said (Google Search).
2.I, therefore, made tests to find out whether there is any beep signal
2a. Recall. There has been no "B" signal when power was switched on since Win 10 updated to 21H1 three month ago.
2b.Tests.
Test A. Remove RAM & GPU and have the power on. A continuing "B" sound is on.
Test B. Remove RAM only then switch power on. A continuing "B" sound is on & many other phenomena not seen before.
>Machine starts running by itself automatically when power cable is plugged in to the PC.
>>Monitor is not on. It is black. Power signal on the monitor is on.
>>>Start button is not working. Cannot cut power off by tapping on it.

Does this situation tell anything about the motherboard?

Thank you.

Diano · 7 Oct 2021 at 03:34

VersionMonkey

Referring to what you said on 6 Oct 2021, "(3) short the clear CMOS pins for a few seconds,"
1.Someone (Google Search) warns that this act, short the CMOS by the jumper pins, is a high risk to damage the BIOS. Is this true?
2.Which 2 pins in the photo are the pins to short the CMOS?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/E4pYYPDXLxqZhgCHA

Craig_d1 · 7 Oct 2021 at 08:43

the other option I put above..unplug power lead, take out cmos battery and leave for 30mins before putting new battery in. The complete lack of any power will reset the cmos etc.
You can unplug your sata/ssd as they are not needed for the mobo to post and enter bios. What you're trying to do is make sure the motherboard is functional

Craig_d1 · 7 Oct 2021 at 08:48

https://www.avadirect.com/blog/avadirect-clear-cmos-reset-bios-guide/

best i could find for using screwdriver to jump pins, but can do it way above too

Craig_d1 · 7 Oct 2021 at 08:51

Think below is your mobo...24 is cmos jumper

Diano · 11 Oct 2021 at 10:27

Thank you, Gentlemen.

I have been doing some tests & now have come to hit a wall.

Have done tests as the following:
1.CMOS battery CR2032, did not make any difference.
2.RAM, did not make any difference.
3.GPU, did not make any difference.

Now, I want to test the SSD.
The SSD is: brand Like On , model CV1-8B 128, capacity 128GB.

There is a suspicion that my SSD might be stuffed full.

Reason for such a suspicion:
1.The PC was used for editing digital RAW files & TIFF files.
2.Used for converting negative images to digital RAW & TIFF files.
These files are 120~140MB each.
For several days prior to the crash of the PC, the PC was used to convert negative images intensively and completed close to 800 files in two days.
Then, the next morning, the PC crashed at start.

Anothe PC.
I have borrowed another PC. same brand same model, but Windows update.
My PC : Windows 10 update is 21H1.
Borrowed PC : Windows 10 update is 20H1.

Questions:
Take the SSD from the borrowed PC & put on my PC.
1.Will this cause confusion or damage to the OS on that SSD?
2.Will the OS with different update on the borrowed SSD boot my PC ?
3.If it does not boot, is it because of
3a.the different updates?
3b.OS on that SSD cannot recognize the dead PC?
3c.the stuck PC unable to read that SSD?
Can this test tell anything about the SSD on my stuck PC and/or the entire system of the stuck PC?

Thank you very much.
Diano