Some AMD cards are now approaching MSRP

[Nexus18]

I did it in a single sentence.

Again, this is obvious and i didn't say it didn't, Gadfall uses Ray Traced Shadows and Gloabal Illumination.
FC6 uses Ray Traced Ray Shadows, Gloabal Illumination and reflections but it doesn't use the latter in excessive amounts and they are a lower resolution to the environment, they are rendered to a roughness texture of some sort which A disguises the lower resolution and B IMO looks better because reflections are in reality rarely mirror perfect.

(Lower resolution = less pixels = higher performance.
They explain this in the article you linked.

They also talk about the reason for using Ray Tracing for reflections.

Normally one would use Screen Space Reflections, what is visibly in your field of view is rendered to texture on reflective surfaces, the problem with this is what is outside the camera frame is not seen and therefore its reflection cannot be rendered, think a light in the celling above your field of view, on a reflective floor that light should be rendered but isn't because its not in the "Screen Space"

With RT you're bouncing rays all around the room (in developing games you can set how many trace bounces you have) the more bounces you have the more accurate the environment re-render but is also a higher cost in performance.

Congrats, you have just debunked your claim of "shiny surfaces", so you can conclude that there is far more to RT than just "shiny surfaces" now?

Not sure how often you get out of the house or what your environments are like but "reflections" often can be "mirror perfect", google images is your friend if you aren't near any buildings or lakes etc.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ref...RUlBLgQ_AUoAXoECBkQAw&biw=2008&bih=1213&dpr=1

https://www.google.com/search?q=ref...&ei=TVcfYoadMbyljLsP-uyR4A0&bih=1213&biw=2008

https://www.google.com/search?q=ref...g&ei=g1cfYpuvN4OSlwTXxJWoCQ&bih=1213&biw=2008

seriously i doubt the majority care about RT, myself included, for those that dont we can just grab some popcorn and watch

Given the amount of RT in games now and the fact even developers are wanting to make use of it where possible in consoles shows otherwise imo. Developers are trying to squeeze all they can from consoles when it comes to RT:

https://www.videogameschronicle.com...eveal-plans-to-accelerate-ray-tracing-on-ps5/

I like it where its used sensibly, it doesn't need to be used to such and extent it grinds your GPU to a halt.

Define sensibly? In terms of it only grinds your gpu to a halt.... that's only applicable to cards, which lack the RT grunt i.e. turing and RDNA 2. Again, will you be saying this in 5-10 years time when RT is the new norm and used far more than what we have seen in any current title?

Remember Battle Field V RTX? They removed Screen Space Reflections entirely and replaced it with RTX, because in some cases you could barley tell the difference, so there is an example where using Screen Space Reflection and Ray Traced reflections together in a way that's smart can give you the same visual result at a lower performance cost.

BF 5 is notorious for being awful at RT.... you're taking the very first game to use RT (essentially it could be considered as an alpha test of RT)... it came out in 2018 and we all agree that RT was not ready back then but someone had to get the ball rolling and make that first step. It's 2022 and the RT scene is completely different now, hence why likes of HU etc. have all changed their tune on RT now i.e. stop living in the past and bringing up examples that are no longer relevant given all the new RT titles that are out and a hundred times better.

FC6 use a mixture of Screen Space reflections and RT reflections.

You know fine well the only reason AMD "sponsored" titles aren't going heavy on RT is because of the lack of hardware grunt to run it well, I suppose you could say it is being "sensible" from amds POV.... Assuming RDNA 3 matches/exceeds amperes RT abilities do you really think amd are still going to stick with the limited RT effects in their sponsored titles?

If you want the best comparison for RT, it's metro enhanced, it runs better than the original version and runs fairly ok on amd, 4a even said themselves that when done right, rt can run better especially on amd cards.

 

[Zarax]

seriously i doubt the majority care about RT, myself included, for those that dont we can just grab some popcorn and watch

Give me something decent for 600€ tops, anything above that better has to do a lot more than RT to persuade me...

 

[humbug]

The difference in Ray Tracing architecture between AMD and Nvidia is AMD use a software extension to the shader, much like CPU cores have extensions for specific tasks, SSE, AVX ecte... being familiar with this is probably why AMD took this approach, Nvidia use dedicated RT cores.

Nvidia's is better because its a dedicated compute cluster for the task and with that its independent to how many shaders you have. Those are the positives.

There are advantages to AMD's approach, the RT portion of AMD's GPU don't use up their own die space, the Ray Tracing performance is increased in parallel with how many shaders you might add in later revisions of the GPU, at 0 die space cost in its self. This may play well for AMD as GPU's grow in shader count.

 

[KompuKare]

seriously i doubt the majority care about RT, myself included, for those that dont we can just grab some popcorn and watch

Does popcorn render better with raytracing?!

Maybe, you have to go for popcorn with extra butter, or something similar and shiny? Whereas I though realistic popcorn was mostly about having detailed models with lighting only a secondary concern.

 

[Nexus18]

Does popcorn render better with raytracing?!

Maybe, you have to go for popcorn with extra butter, or something similar and shiny? Whereas I though realistic popcorn was mostly about having detailed models with lighting only a secondary concern.

Know you're taking the **** but interestingly enough, lighting does have a big impact as to how textures, objects etc. are perceived/look, DF explained it well in their DL 2 analysis video:

Not really that surprising though given the lengths and measures that film/tv crews go to when it comes to lighting.

 

[MCFC_ANDY]

Give me something decent for 600€ tops, anything above that better has to do a lot more than RT to persuade me...

from day of Rt ive had the same opinion, its a gimmick, im more than happy with old fashion rasterization, maybe they fine in open world games you wander about taking in the views, i prefer fast paced games have little time to think ooo thats a nice reflection etc, im for more busy being immersed in the game, so after 40yrs of gaming i wont be changing my mind,that being said if its a no hit to performance and im playing a slower pace game, then fine, but i wouldnt buy a card just for RT.
like RT in BF, ooo look at my reflection at wich time your respawning after having head blown off

 

[humbug]

from day of Rt ive had the same opinion, its a gimmick, im more than happy with old fashion rasterization, maybe they fine in open world games you wander about taking in the views, i prefer fast paced games have little time to think ooo thats a nice reflection etc, im for more busy being immersed in the game, so after 40yrs of gaming i wont be changing my mind,that being said if its a no hit to performance and im playing a slower pace game, then fine, but i wouldnt buy a card just for RT.
like RT in BF, ooo look at my reflection at wich time your respawning after having head blown off

Not impressed with seeing yourself in the very polished floor?

 

[MCFC_ANDY]

Not impressed with seeing yourself in the very polished floor?

this face, hell no

 

[humbug]

this face, hell no

lol...

 

[Nexus18]

from day of Rt ive had the same opinion, its a gimmick, im more than happy with old fashion rasterization, maybe they fine in open world games you wander about taking in the views, i prefer fast paced games have little time to think ooo thats a nice reflection etc, im for more busy being immersed in the game, so after 40yrs of gaming i wont be changing my mind,that being said if its a no hit to performance and im playing a slower pace game, then fine, but i wouldnt buy a card just for RT.
like RT in BF, ooo look at my reflection at wich time your respawning after having head blown off

If you aren't bothered by RT, it's better to say that than making incorrect comments like "RT is a gimmick" as it has been proven it's not, again, if it where, do you really think the whole gaming industry would be adopting it? And before people say "nvidia paid" etc., what about consoles games where nvidia have no involvement, not forgetting, they don't even have any involvement with the console hardware....

Fun fact, RT is used in other industries and not just "games" either:

https://graphics.pixar.com/library/RayTracingCars/paper.pdf

 

[MCFC_ANDY]

If you aren't bothered by RT, it's better to say that than making incorrect comments like "RT is a gimmick" as it has been proven it's not, again, if it where, do you really think the whole gaming industry would be adopting it? And before people say "nvidia paid" etc., what about consoles games where nvidia have no involvement, not forgetting, they don't even have any involvement with the console hardware....

Fun fact, RT is used in other industries and not just "games" either:

https://graphics.pixar.com/library/RayTracingCars/paper.pdf

it doesnt matter if you put cherry on top, not interested

 

[Nexus18]

it doesnt matter if you put cherry on top, not interested

It's not about putting a cherry on top, it's just simply an incorrect statement: "RT is a gimmick".

If you're not interested in rt, that's a completely different matter and nothing wrong with that.

 

[Darujhistan]

RT is hugely overrated.

 

[MCFC_ANDY]

it doesnt matter if you put cherry on top, not interested

to me its a gimmick, have to agree to disagree.

 

[Darujhistan]

to me its a gimmick, have to agree to disagree.

I agree it's a gimmick for people who are more interested in talking about RT and GPU tech than playing the games, and for screenshot enthusiasts. It's the same few people talking about it endlessly with thousands of posts about it (you know who are! ) - while 90% of people are ho hum about it, and won't notice whether it's on or off (apart from the perforamnce tank) while they're actuually playing games and not faffing about with endless settings and taking screenshots and then posting them on forums.



RT is like a cult, and a few people are dying on that hill every day.

 

[Wrinkly]

I agree it's a gimmick for people who are more interested in talking about RT and GPU tech than playing the games, and for screenshot enthusiasts. It's the same few people talking about it endlessly with thousands of posts about it (you know who are! ) - while 90% of people are ho hum about it, and won't notice whether it's on or off (apart from the perforamnce tank) while they're actuually playing games and not faffing about with endless settings and taking screenshots and then posting them on forums.



RT is like a cult, and a few people are dying on that hill every day.

RT isn't just about the graphics, which are a major improvement, as it allows a far more dynamic gaming environment. It amazes me just how far behind people are on this tech, when so many of us have tried to educate

 

[Nexus18]

Well it's a good thing every development studio doesn't share those opinions

 

[Nexus18]

RT isn't just about the graphics, which are a major improvement, as it allows a far more dynamic gaming environment. It amazes me just how far behind people are on this tech, when so many of us have tried to educate

Indeed.

I'll admit I was very sceptic of it when it first came out and didn't really see the big fuss surrounding RT (not helped by the lacklustre titles and usage at the time tbf) but after watching all the videos on developers, enthusiasts etc. talking about it and explaining why it's the future etc. as well as seeing it with my own eyes in several games, I now get why it's the next best thing to take gaming graphics into the next gen world.

 

[MCFC_ANDY]

guys why you need to defend what you already believe in, just many dont, not going to convert folk by belittling them, or knowing more etc, its down to personal choice. now on your merry way

 

[Darujhistan]

RT isn't just about the graphics, which are a major improvement, as it allows a far more dynamic gaming environment. It amazes me just how far behind people are on this tech, when so many of us have tried to educate

Maybe people just don't think it's all it's cracked up to be, and that's all there is to it? Maybe not everyone gives a toss about it? Maybe people just think it's a gimmick? Maybe people have used it and were just "meh" about the results? (pretty common response from what I have read)

Simple really, it doesn't stop you enjoying it, I just don't think you need to "educate" anyone on it?

Is anyone asking for an "education" on RT?

I don't think they are.