Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

Doobedoo · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:03

Slam62 said:
Yes,

To add, at the time I could not believe they were invading another country, I was shocked. The only justification would be to stop genocide.

Would you say that what Russia are doing now is worse than what we did in Iraq.

The_One · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:03

convoy gonna get some

Slam62 · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:04

bloodiedathame said:
I guess the reasoning behind impacting Russian civilians is to make them put pressure on Putin.

An uncivilised country that doesn't abide by the basic rules of decency can not take part in the advantages of the international cooperation.

physichull · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:07

VincentHanna said:
They have pilots and airfields still

Hmmm, you've not exactly convinced me there.

And even if the above were true, we may just be throwing them away if they can't be supplied in the numbers required and given the number of planes in Russia's airforce I sincerely doubt they could make much of an impact other than more dead Ukranian pilots.

SPG · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:08

ubersonic said:
Disgusting TBH, the IPC should be ashamed.

I'm not a fan of victimising regular Russians for the crimes of their dictator when there's nothing they can do about it but victimising disabled Russians is just vile.

The worst thing about it is, this whole "lets try and make life as bad as we can for the people of [insert country] so they overthrow their dictator(s)" thing has NEVER worked. It failed with Cuba, it failed with Vietnam, it failed with North Korea, it failed with Iran, it failed with Iraq, it failed with Afghanistan, it failed with Iran (again), it failed in Libya*, it failed in Syria and it's going to fail again here as it's been proven time and time again that attacking the people of [insert country] at best doesn't work and at worst makes them more sympathetic to their dictator(s) because you're attacking them too.

*Yes I know Libya did "rise up" but it wasn't enough people to do anything noteworthy, the only reason the rebels won there is because NATO acted as their defacto air force and bombed any military resistance to the rebellion into oblivion.

Funny, i am on the other side of the fence, the Russian people while not directly are at fault they have had ample opportunity to Rock the Puttin boat before he paid everyone off to be his thugs. It would have only turned out to the PR exercise for Russia anyway so why even give them the chance. Correct decision and it should have been that the first time around.

Slam62 · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:08

Doobedoo said:
Would you say that what Russia are doing now is worse than what we did in Iraq.

Not really although we obviously had a lot of propaganda that proved incorrect. The context was post 911 and the war on terror. Such a context doesn't exist for Ukraine I believe.

Rilot · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:08

Doobedoo said:
Would you say that what Russia are doing now is worse than what we did in Iraq.

Yes, Saddam Hussain, whether he had WMDs or not, was oppressing his people and committing genocide against Kurds and Shia Muslims.
We were not justified in invading but if you have to weigh up two bad things, Russia's invasion is worse.

dunker · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:10

robfosters · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:11

ltron said:
Putin is bombing them into the stone age, it's awful to see and feel that our leaders can't do anything to stop him.

We’re sanctioning Russia back to the Stone Age

the wopster · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:11

The_One said:
convoy gonna get some

I really want this to be true as that convoy has been sitting there just asking for some Arty magic, but that video could have been taken at any time

ubersonic · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:11

dunker said:
maybe Russia are invading Ukraine, to stop a genocide. from their very paranoid point of view?

That's not a justification, it's an explanation.

physichull · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:11

Rilot said:
Yes, Saddam Hussain, whether he had WMDs or not, was oppressing his people and committing genocide against Kurds and Shia Muslims.
We were not justified in invading but if you have to weigh up two bad things, Russia's invasion is worse.

Agreed, and by far.

The Russian's premise for invading is non-existent too other than imperial conquest and alignment to their own ideology. I don't recall us governing in Iraq or occupying the country, nor did we make billions off their oil, otherwise, why doesn't Baghdad look like Dubai, rolling in the riches of their oil industry?

Slam62 · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:12

dunker said:
maybe Russia are invading Ukraine, to stop a genocide. from their very paranoid point of view?

i know this for sure, i trust everyone not in any government way more than anyone in a
government.

Nah Putin is doing it to build his empire, he thought the Ukrainians and the west would just roll over like crimea

Colonel_Klinck · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:13

Doobedoo said:
Would you say that what Russia are doing now is worse than what we did in Iraq.

Yes. Saddam used chemical warfare against the Kurds who were Iraqi citizens. He'd invaded Kuwait 10 years earlier. He was a POS. However I do disagree with how it was done and certainly the justification for it being done.

Ukraine has done none of those things. Their crime is they want to be closer to the EU and Putin is punishing them for it.

Ayahuasca · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:13

dunker said:
maybe Russia are invading Ukraine, to stop a genocide. from their very paranoid point of view?

A genocide? Putin said they are the same people.

Slam62 · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:14

Ayahuasca said:
A genocide? Putin said they are the same people.

He also said they were nazis

Chuk_Chuk · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:15

Entai said:
Actually Putin wanted to join NATO early in his premiership, but did not want to "wait in line" behind other countries who had already applied.

Putin told David Frost in an interview once, he would not rule out joining Nato “if and when Russia’s views are taken into account as those of an equal partner”.

He told Frost it was hard for him to visualise Nato as an enemy. “Russia is part of the European culture. And I cannot imagine my own country in isolation from Europe and what we often call the civilised world.”

This is fascinating thank you.

ubersonic said:
Disgusting TBH, the IPC should be ashamed.

I'm not a fan of victimising regular Russians for the crimes of their dictator when there's nothing they can do about it but victimising disabled Russians is just vile.

The worst thing about it is, this whole "lets try and make life as bad as we can for the people of [insert country] so they overthrow their dictator(s)" thing has NEVER worked. It failed with Cuba, it failed with Vietnam, it failed with North Korea, it failed with Iran, it failed with Iraq, it failed with Afghanistan, it failed with Iran (again), it failed in Libya*, it failed in Syria and it's going to fail again here as it's been proven time and time again that attacking the people of [insert country] at best doesn't work and at worst makes them more sympathetic to their dictator(s) because you're attacking them too.

*Yes I know Libya did "rise up" but it wasn't enough people to do anything noteworthy, the only reason the rebels won there is because NATO acted as their defacto air force and bombed any military resistance to the rebellion into oblivion.

its a shame but conflict breeds hate and I think a lot of people just hate Russians right now which is why they all cheer for this. The end of this is only more enemies. Other nations are watching and I wonder what they think of us right now.

There is an F1 driver who is not permitted to partake in the British GP because his dad is an oligarch. And I couldn’t help but think have we really reached the level of North Korea where we punish people for the acts of their family members.

physichull · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:18

Chuk_Chuk said:
its a shame but conflict breeds hate and I think a lot of people just hate Russians right now which is why they all cheer for this

Not me, I don't hate ordinary Russians, but they were right to be kicked out. Putin has weaponised sport for years (see my earlier post to save me repeating the same arguments).

Irrespective of the war, there are good arguments for not having them there based on doping history, but that's another story for another thread.

Slam62 · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:18

Chuk_Chuk said:
This is fascinating thank you.

its a shame but conflict breeds hate and I think a lot of people just hate Russians right now which is why they all cheer for this. The end of this is only more enemies. Other nations are watching and I wonder what they think of us right now.

There is an F1 driver who is not permitted to partake in the British GP because his dad is an oligarch. And I couldn’t help but think have we really reached the level of North Korea where we punish people for the acts of their family members.

You see, he's not even in f1 on merit, he was only there because of money. No way should he be competing, all motorsport should ban Russian money.

ubersonic · 3 Mar 2022 at 20:19

physichull said:
And even if the above were true, we may just be throwing them away if they can't be supplied in the numbers required and given the number of planes in Russia's airforce I sincerely doubt they could make much of an impact other than more dead Ukranian pilots.

The number of planes Russia has is much larger than Ukraine's but it's offset by the fact they haven't/can't send every plane they have to Ukraine plus the fact Ukraine's SAM network is mostly still active, hence why despite the "odds" Ukraine are actually winning in the air.

It's also quite embarrassing for Russia to be losing Su-30/34 aircraft to MiG-29 and Su-27 lol.

*EDIT*

Just saw this when checking losses of all sides:

Other operators losses

Romanian Air Force - One MiG-21 crashed while on an air patrol close to the Ukrainian border.

Romanian Air Force - One SA 300 Puma on a search and rescue mission for the missing MiG-21 crashed with five fatalities

Talk about bad luck