COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

[Werewolf]

All I can briefly find is lots of people ranting about the vaccine having never been tested on pregnant women, just rats and that it wasn't reccommended for pregnant people or breast feeders

I'd say it's odd media outlets aren't reporting on it but it's an 80,000 page drop so I guess the people who are actual journalists have to read through it all

IIRC virtually nothing is tested on pregnant women (at least initially and deliberately), and the initial advice on not vaccinating pregnant women was changed a long time ago when any possible risk from the vaccine on the pregnancy was considered far less than the risk from not being vaccinated.

It's pretty much a nothing, in much the same way some people look at the list of "ingredients" for a vaccine and go "OMG they're injecting us with mercury" when mercury is only listed because it's used at some point in production and they can't guarantee that you won't find some trace of it in the finished vaccine if you look hard enough with a sufficiently sensitive test (in the same way that household cleaners claim to kill 99.9% of germs because they can't guarantee a test won't find some at some point).

 

[Rroff]

Any links to this data? Seems my Google skills are failing me.

I believe it is mostly from this stuff here https://phmpt.org/pfizers-documents/

From what I can see (I've mostly gone on the bits people have posted on Tweets, etc. rather than try and take it all in) a lot of the stuff blowing up on Twitter largely stems from:

People not understanding the data or testing methodology especially where specific studies/tests/data link into a larger regime and can't be interpreted in isolation, such as where adverse reactions or deaths are only noted, not attributed to a cause but people are interpreting them as all caused by the vaccine when it is standard A and B groups with a placebo testing. Likewise for instance using data which only looks at the first 30 days to claim the vaccine isn't effective - it takes longer than that to reach peak effectiveness.

And so on and so forth - quite a lot is either ignorantly or willingly ignoring what is actually being said to contort it into something which supports the anti-vaxxers position i.e. using data from specific age groups as if it applies to all ages.

That isn't to say there aren't concerning bits because there definitely are - but if anyone bothered to read the UK government's emergency authorisation documents for the vaccines it isn't particularly surprising stuff (the official message played somewhat fast and loose with the truth in some areas - even if in some cases there is possibly justification for it).

So Omicron is milder then?

Complicated and the vaccines somewhat skew the picture but with Omicron it is much more common for the impact of the disease to be shifted from lower to upper respiratory tract so sore throat is more common than lung inflammation which is one of, though not the only aspect, which makes COVID dangerous. The net effect seems to be the disease is generally less likely to cause severe outcomes in the fit and healthy population who have no undetected serious medical issues, etc. but it still seems to be almost as bad as Delta in the vulnerable and elderly population and probably partly due to the increased prevalence enabling it to reach places it couldn't before it seems to be taking quite a toll in certain older age groups compared to Delta.

However that isn't the whole story as there are still a lot of unknowns as to the longer term picture especially if people get COVID more than once which Omicron makes more possible with its immune evasion. For instance there seem to be a not insignificant number of people who never seem to quite get back to their old selves after a bout or two of COVID - I know people who used to run marathons who are still struggling to make it through a day at work which is probably the impact of COVID.

 

[Hagar]

In an international emergency, a virus killing millions of people worldwide, a vaccine or several is produced, tested and approved. Nobody is forced to have the vaccine apart from some workers in a care setting and even then they still had a choice.

I expect there will be people for whom the vaccine was a worse choice, a few may have died from it however it was still the best solution for the mass of humans who lined up in millions to be inoculated. It certainly has reduced deaths and serious illness during the last winter phase.

Individuals do not really matter on a national or global scale. Disease prevention or reduction in serious symptoms does. This is the only case where my normal centre right political viewpoint could align with a more communist one.

 

[Tephnos]

I believe it is mostly from this stuff here https://phmpt.org/pfizers-documents/

From what I can see (I've mostly gone on the bits people have posted on Tweets, etc. rather than try and take it all in) a lot of the stuff blowing up on Twitter largely stems from:

People not understanding the data or testing methodology especially where specific studies/tests/data link into a larger regime and can't be interpreted in isolation, such as where adverse reactions or deaths are only noted, not attributed to a cause but people are interpreting them as all caused by the vaccine when it is standard A and B groups with a placebo testing. Likewise for instance using data which only looks at the first 30 days to claim the vaccine isn't effective - it takes longer than that to reach peak effectiveness.

And so on and so forth - quite a lot is either ignorantly or willingly ignoring what is actually being said to contort it into something which supports the anti-vaxxers position i.e. using data from specific age groups as if it applies to all ages.

That isn't to say there aren't concerning bits because there definitely are - but if anyone bothered to read the UK government's emergency authorisation documents for the vaccines it isn't particularly surprising stuff (the official message played somewhat fast and loose with the truth in some areas - even if in some cases there is possibly justification for it).



Complicated and the vaccines somewhat skew the picture but with Omicron it is much more common for the impact of the disease to be shifted from lower to upper respiratory tract so sore throat is more common than lung inflammation which is one of, though not the only aspect, which makes COVID dangerous. The net effect seems to be the disease is generally less likely to cause severe outcomes in the fit and healthy population who have no undetected serious medical issues, etc. but it still seems to be almost as bad as Delta in the vulnerable and elderly population and probably partly due to the increased prevalence enabling it to reach places it couldn't before it seems to be taking quite a toll in certain older age groups compared to Delta.

However that isn't the whole story as there are still a lot of unknowns as to the longer term picture especially if people get COVID more than once which Omicron makes more possible with its immune evasion. For instance there seem to be a not insignificant number of people who never seem to quite get back to their old selves after a bout or two of COVID - I know people who used to run marathons who are still struggling to make it through a day at work which is probably the impact of COVID.

To your second half of the post, I recall reading data from the US quite recently that chances of hospitalisation goes up with reinfection, jumping up quite so not-insignificantly on the third reinfection. Essentially, the more it is infecting people the more damage it seems to be doing.

That is pretty worrying on a longer term trend.

 

[Surveyor]

Covid: World’s true pandemic death toll nearly 15 million, says WHO

The Covid pandemic has caused the deaths of nearly 15 million people around the world, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimates.

That is 13% more deaths than normally expected over two years.

The WHO believes many countries undercounted the numbers who died from Covid - only 5.4 million were reported.

The Indian government has questioned the estimate, saying it has "concerns" about the methodology, but other studies have come to similar conclusions about the scale of deaths in the country.

 

[Tephnos]

Covid: World’s true pandemic death toll nearly 15 million, says WHO

Honestly still seems low given the estimated death tolls for Swine Flu being far higher than actual confirmed deaths (something like 25k confirmed with up to 250-500k estimated IIRC), it just took years after to get those numbers - a lot of the deaths were in the Third World so very hard to track.

I expect similar here.

 

[sparkymark75]

My wife, daughter and I are due to fly to New York on the 6th July.

Today the three of us have tested positive after avoiding it for 2 years (my daughters a student nurse and avoided it while on placements and catches it while at home!).

I understand that ordinarily you can get a test the day before you fly and use that for boarding the flight. But there’s also a provision for those that have tested positive within 90 days of flying to get a letter from a healthcare professional stating you are fit to fly.

Would it be better for the 3 of us to get a doctors letter for flying or is getting a lateral flow at a test centre the day before flying still the best option? There’s obviously the outside chance of one of us still testing positive which would be chaos.

I’m kinda hoping the US drop the requirement for having a test before flying by the time I fly!

 

[Rotty]

My wife, daughter and I are due to fly to New York on the 6th July.

Today the three of us have tested positive after avoiding it for 2 years (my daughters a student nurse and avoided it while on placements and catches it while at home!).

I understand that ordinarily you can get a test the day before you fly and use that for boarding the flight. But there’s also a provision for those that have tested positive within 90 days of flying to get a letter from a healthcare professional stating you are fit to fly.

Would it be better for the 3 of us to get a doctors letter for flying or is getting a lateral flow at a test centre the day before flying still the best option? There’s obviously the outside chance of one of us still testing positive which would be chaos.

I’m kinda hoping the US drop the requirement for having a test before flying by the time I fly!

doesn't need to be at a test centre, you can do a video linked one

I would get the test likely to be less hassle than the certificate

 

[=XDC=FluphyBunny]

Recently just had covid. Thankfully fully vaccinated so felt like a bad cold. Saying that it still left me feeling knackered a week after testing negative.

Not pleasant but compared to people I know who had it pre-vaccine, or someone who never had the vaccine, it could have been a lot worse.

 

[Alice In Wonderland]

Recently just had covid. Thankfully fully vaccinated so felt like a bad cold. Saying that it still left me feeling knackered a week after testing negative.

Not pleasant but compared to people I know who had it pre-vaccine, or someone who never had the vaccine, it could have been a lot worse.

It's so strange how it differs and affects people differently. My brother had it and despite being vaccinated twice, he said it was awful and he felt dreadful.

 

[the wopster]

It's so strange how it differs and affects people differently. My brother had it and despite being vaccinated twice, he said it was awful and he felt dreadful.

Definitely, I tested positive of Thursday with a sore throat, Friday I felt achy as hell with chills, and Saturday the cough started, by Sunday all I had was the cough and congestion which is the same today, could have easily went back to work today but am probably still infectious so thought it was best to give it another day

 

[Rroff]

It's so strange how it differs and affects people differently. My brother had it and despite being vaccinated twice, he said it was awful and he felt dreadful.

Obviously to a degree it is the same with most diseases but IMO some people, almost like an allergic reaction, are predisposed to having a bad case with COVID - the vaccine might make a difference to severity but they'll still always have a fairly rotten time with it.

 

[DB_SamX]

Anyone getting their 4th jab? I've been invited since Christmas as one of the priority list, but I got snd recovered frk. Omicron since and then obviously needed to wait. Now that cases keep decreasing, I am not seeing the point as the risk is getting less and less.

 

[Tony Edwards]

Any links to this data? Seems my Google skills are failing me.

So I came across this story the other day.

The Pfizer conspiracy is a product of Twitter's armchair experts

Pseudoscience has been catapulted from conspiracist fringes into mainstream conversation.

www.newstatesman.com

People are wrong about things almost every minute of every day. It’s human nature to misunderstand and misrepresent what we see in our day-to-day lives. We all make mistakes. But in the social media age, such errors can be amplified and spread, turning an honest mistake into something harmful.


That is the charitable explanation of why wild allegations that misrepresent the findings of studies into Pfizer’s Covid-19 vaccines are going viral on social media. The supposed “Pfizer documents” scandal that has been careening around certain corners of the internet for the entire pandemic has broken into the mainstream, becoming a Twitter trending topic for large portions of this week, after being given the oxygen of publicity by high-profile individuals like the US congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene.


Among the comments going most viral on Twitter are unsubstantiated claims that Pfizer “lied about everything”, that trials on the vaccine should have been shut down for safety concerns, and that “the vaccine wasn’t worth a ********”. Inevitably, that last one came with a howl of frustration that you won’t see it on the news. The reason you won’t see it on the news, however, is more prosaic than a mass media, big business, and giant government conspiracy: to put it simply, the documents don’t say what many people on social media seem to think they do.


In many viral posts Twitter users have completely misrepresent what’s actually said in the documents — which aren’t in fact from Pfizer at all. One seemingly definitive a-ha moment captured in a tweet claims that pregnant and breastfeeding women were advised to take the jab while internal documents said it was not recommended for those women. It sounds damning, and would be, if the documents were recent or from Pfizer. Instead, the document dates from 2020, when women were advised not to have the jab because of an absence of safety evidence, and is from the UK’s Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Authority (MHRA), not Pfizer. Twitter has slapped that tweet — and plenty of others — with labels warning that it’s misleading or non-contextual content.

 

[the wopster]

I’m not sure if anyone will be able to answer this but her goes, my immunocompromised wife is finally almost testing negative after 18 days, I caught Covid from her on day 13 so am still testing quite a strong positive(just an intermittent cough and stuffy nose now) , my question is can I reinfected my wife after she has cleared the virus due to her being B-Cell depleted and not being able to make antibodies, the last thing I want to do is reinfect her after she has cleared it, at the minute I’m wearing a mask around her and sleeping downstairs just incase. Anyone got any ideas?

 

[Rroff]

I’m not sure if anyone will be able to answer this but her goes, my immunocompromised wife is finally almost testing negative after 18 days, I caught Covid from her on day 13 so am still testing quite a strong positive(just an intermittent cough and stuffy nose now) , my question is can I reinfected my wife after she has cleared the virus due to her being B-Cell depleted and not being able to make antibodies, the last thing I want to do is reinfect her after she has cleared it, at the minute I’m wearing a mask around her and sleeping downstairs just incase. Anyone got any ideas?

I think you need to talk to a medical professional - even if anyone here had a good understanding of the mechanics involved without intimate knowledge of your wife's medical history there is a lot that could be missed. (For that reason anyone qualified to give you an answer online won't).

 

[the wopster]

I think you need to talk to a medical professional - even if anyone here had a good understanding of the mechanics involved without intimate knowledge of your wife's medical history there is a lot that could be missed.

Yeah probably a good idea, I just remembered there were few medical professionals on here, I think @Mr Jack was one.

 

[Mr Jack]

Yeah probably a good idea, I just remembered there were few medical professionals on here, I think @Mr Jack was one.

I'm not: my background is in Biology not medicine. If I did have medical training I wouldn't give advice to randomers on the interwebs.

From a biologists point of view if your wife cleared the disease then she must have had some kind of successful immune response which I'd expect to still be active but I'd strongly suggest you ask a medical professional familiar with your wife's actual condition.

 

[Mr Jack]

Now that cases keep decreasing, I am not seeing the point as the risk is getting less and less.

Cases will go up again. There is nothing to suggest we've seen the last wave.

 

[Django x2]

Interesting the WHO data which levels the playing field on deaths Vs testing shows the UK response as one of the best in Europe with COVID deaths below every other major European country.