Zen FTTC to FTTP regrade

Wizzkidy

Wizzkidy

Wizzkidy

Associate
Joined
25 Jun 2003
Posts
2,060
Hi,

My friend just had Zen 500 FTTP installed and originally had Zen FTTC 70/20 and went through a regrade to move him over. He has kept all his external Ip's the same.

Unfortunately the speeds he is getting is right on the minimum guaranteed speed of 250Mbit. It's all over the place to be fair, one minute it's 350 the next its 150. I live a 10 minute walk from him in the same town and mine is 550 to 600Mbit without any issue.

He called Zen after some speed tests and they got us to connect a machine directly to the ONT and create a manual PPPoE connection which was still the same, best speed we got was 230Mbit. So I know the issue is not the local network (we also tried like 10 different cables on the advice of Zen, they even said that CAT6a was WORSE then CAT5e but I tried all different types)

Zen have basically said because he is getting the bare minimum guaranteed speed there is nothing they can do and he just has to live with it, even though he is paying for 500 and only getting (at some points) half of that if not lower between speed tests

I really don't know what else he can do apart from going back to them when the speed test is below 250 and saying it's below that minimum. This seems like a crazy situation, they don't seem to care if you hit that 250Mbit when you pay for double that??

I wondered if the engineer who performed the fibre splice messed it up, he didn't do the splice in a controlled area, it was done on the window-cill with his splicing machine in the open weather, either way this is crappy of Zen and I expected a much better response but I guess all he can do is leave during the cooling off period. This causes some issues as he needs the 5 external IP's he has and changing all that will become a right pain in the rear.

Any advice ? or is it just lump it?
 
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Sounds typical of the new Zen network. Loads of posts on TBB forums with people complaining. I managed to get out of my contact and I’ve moved elsewhere and now have no issues.
 
ChrisD. said:
Sounds typical of the new Zen network. Loads of posts on TBB forums with people complaining. I managed to get out of my contact and I’ve moved elsewhere and now have no issues.
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This is really crappy :( I don't have any issues 10 minutes up the road and I am also with Zen. I am just going to get him to complain over and over again over the next few days and if he don't get anywhere I will reluctantly ask him to get out of the contract and go elsewhere. What a bummer!
 
You might be on BTW still, check your account orders section. It’s called GEA migration or similar.

I went from perfect 6ms and full speeds to over 20ms ping and speeds all over the shop.
 
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Use your cooling off period to cancel Zen and go with a provider with a high quality network such as TalkTalk.

The fact that above statement while being a bit sarcastic is completely true is an indication of how little Zen seem to care any more.
 
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I got 500mb FTTP with Zen and it gets about 510 up and 72 down, and they knocked a bit off per month the standard price with lifetime price guarantee, so really can't complain at all.

It is unlike Zen in my experience.

Meh: 510 down 72 up, but I think you knew what I meant.
 
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ChrisD. said:
You might be on BTW still, check your account orders section. It’s called GEA migration or similar.

I went from perfect 6ms and full speeds to over 20ms ping and speeds all over the shop.
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This is all it says

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To be fair the latency is fine. 4 to 6ms it's just the speed is all over the place and never anywhere near 500
 
I think there are a couple of misconceptions in the original post.

1. That the user can expect more than the guaranteed minimum. That’s why there is a guaranteed minimum. That’s the minimum you should expect. Anything more is a bonus.

2. that splicing fibre and termination needs to be done in a ‘controlled area’. It doesn’t, the alignment block that holds the fibres in place is very well protected against the elements and a fusion splicer will generally check the cable is good. If it wasn’t good you’d get nothing.

3. That you got some sort of special Zen engineer. You didn’t - you got an Openreach engineer, and the same engineer would have come for any of the ISPs that rely on Openreach for their infrastructure.

As has been suggested, if the person concerned isn’t happy with the service then they can cancel and get another Openreach reseller but just be aware that they’ll only take over the existing line and they’ll likely send an Openreach engineer out to fix it on their behalf assuming they dint take the same “you’ve got the minimum, lump it” attitude.

And if it was only installed today you really need to let it settle down before you start getting out the torches and pitchforks.
 
WJA96 said:
I think there are a couple of misconceptions in the original post.

1. That the user can expect more than the guaranteed minimum. That’s why there is a guaranteed minimum. That’s the minimum you should expect. Anything more is a bonus.

2. that splicing fibre and termination needs to be done in a ‘controlled area’. It doesn’t, the alignment block that holds the fibres in place is very well protected against the elements and a fusion splicer will generally check the cable is good. If it wasn’t good you’d get nothing.

3. That you got some sort of special Zen engineer. You didn’t - you got an Openreach engineer, and the same engineer would have come for any of the ISPs that rely on Openreach for their infrastructure.

As has been suggested, if the person concerned isn’t happy with the service then they can cancel and get another Openreach reseller but just be aware that they’ll only take over the existing line and they’ll likely send an Openreach engineer out to fix it on their behalf assuming they dint take the same “you’ve got the minimum, lump it” attitude.

And if it was only installed today you really need to let it settle down before you start getting out the torches and pitchforks.
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Let me just push this back a little bit

1. Yes its a guaranteed minimum, but 7 out of 10 speed tests go as low at 150Mbit

2. The splicing can cause issues on the line and shouldn't be performed outside of weather conditions, I know because I watched the Zen / Openreach live event, you can watch it here - https://youtu.be/2Ef3iiY3K4s?t=851 and at 14 min they talk and show you about the splice machine used and what should be done

3. I never said I got a special engineer? I know it was a Openreach guy and he wanted to walk away when the speed was showing 200Mbit as he couldn't do anymore (fair enough)

oh and 4. There is no "settling" time with FTTP, there is no "trending" time like on FTTC, it should work from the off set.
 
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If the splice was done poorly then the insertion loss figure would have been a failure when it was done. If the splice is within tolerance then it's as good as perfect and not the cause of your issues.
 
Push back all you like. If you’re not getting the minimum speed then they’ll compensate. I do fusion splicing on a regular basis and the kit the Openreach engineers have is fine out in the open. For health & safety purposes the arc weld has to be contained.

As for settling time, it’s not DLM. What do you think is at the other end of the fibre? What do you think is causing the fluctuating speeds? What’s the upload speed like? Stable or fluctuating?
 
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WJA96 said:
Push back all you like. If you’re not getting the minimum speed then they’ll compensate. I do fusion splicing on a regular basis and the kit the Openreach engineers have is fine out in the open. For health & safety purposes the arc weld has to be contained.

As for settling time, it’s not DLM. What do you think is at the other end of the fibre? What do you think is causing the fluctuating speeds? What’s the upload speed like? Stable or fluctuating?
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Latency is fine 4ms to 8ms I have seen throughout today. Upload speed seems fine 70 99% of tests. Download all over the place between 120Mbit to 350.

Fair enough on the splice, I am no expert but this is directly connected to the ONT so this is cutting out any of his equipment
 
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Caged said:
Use your cooling off period to cancel Zen and go with a provider with a high quality network such as TalkTalk.
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While I completely agree, let's just take a moment to reflect on this strange new world 2022 has brought us, and pray to whatever imaginary friend you may hold dear that anyone following this advice never has a routing issue on the residential side with TT.
 
The speed fluctuation is absolutely Zen's network and I'll echo what most other people here have said.

Minimum speed is exactly that, most people won't look at it when ordering a broadband as you're too excited abou tthe top end speed you're trying to pay for, this is standard broadband life I'm afraid. Busy networks mean you won't always get what it says on the tin.

There are significantly more expensive products that would mean you get exactly what it says on the tin.

Does the difference between 230 & 500 make that much a of a real impact? Probably not but understand the frustration.
 
Yea I am not convinced about TT either!

But look yes I agree, most people that are non technical would have this line installed and not give the speed a second thought, well for me I am technical and I do look at the speed and want to get my friend the best service possible, at the moment it's barely hitting the minimum speed. What makes me even more annoyed is that I recommended it to him as mine walking distance 10 minutes away is absolutely fine

Zen use to have great technical support but they are just normal monkeys on the phone now and don't give two hoots.
 
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I'm not sure if this is going to work but try putting your PPPoE credentials into your friends connection (you'll have to drop your connection first). Though I suspect the backhaul decision is happening at a much lower level than the PPPoE session and your friend is on Zen's own network which they seem to not be able to make work properly, and as your connection has been in place for a while you're on BT Wholesale.
 
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