Just what is NVIDIA up to?

humbug · 5 Aug 2023 at 14:18

uscool said:
they seem very critcal of nvidia from watching reviews of the 40 series cards without even watching them look at the thumbnails , Its my opinion and will leave it at that , they even slated them for trying to get them to influence reviews so get brownie points for that

The 4080 is probably the worst offender among these 40 series cards, HUB gave it a glowing review, i don't so much have a problem with that it is a good GPU, but not that good, they utterly failed to call Nvidia out on the insane pricing, basically they avoided any criticism laid at Nvidia at all.

When it came to the 7900XT the tone was very different, they gave no credence to the GPU as a product, like they did the 4080, instead all they did was slam it for being overpriced, which it was but not like the 4080 was which they didn't slam for its price at all, and then said you should actually buy the 4080 instead before rounding the review out by saying its all so bad they told AIB's not to bother sending them any samples as they would not be reviewing them at all.

To me that was clearly pandering to an Nvidia review guide.

TNA · 5 Aug 2023 at 14:32

ICDP said:
But this is what’s already happening. By design or by default AMD are not competing at the high end and their GPUs are cheaper and generally as good or better in many ways than their direct Nvidia competitor.

What AMD did wrong was still price them too high. If AMD had current prices on release I suspects people would still moan and wait for their Nvidia GPU prices to drop. That kind of thing is not mindshare, it’s almost like a cult.

AMD basically got greedy and massively overestimated their mindshare at launch.

Yep. And their mind share will keep getting worse if they continue on this path.

Not competing at the high end may actually be a good thing for them if they actually release a mid range card that offers great value by providing a substantial improvement performance per pound.

Do that and sort out FSR and they will do well imo. Oh and get drivers right day one ffs.

Aegis · 5 Aug 2023 at 14:32

humbug said:
The 4080 is probably the worst offender among these 40 series cards, HUB gave it a glowing review, i don't so much have a problem with that it is a good GPU, but not that good, they utterly failed to call Nvidia out on the insane pricing, basically they avoided any criticism laid at Nvidia at all.

When it came to the 7900XT the tone was very different, they gave no credence to the GPU as a product, like they did the 4080, instead all they did was slam it for being overpriced, which it was but not like the 4080 was which they didn't slam for its price at all, and then said you should actually buy the 4080 instead before rounding the review out by saying its all so bad they told AIB's not to bother sending them any samples as they would not be reviewing them at all.

To me that was clearly pandering to an Nvidia review guide.

Did we watch the same review video?

In his summary Steve states:

"We now know exactly how the RTX 4080 performs, but at this point in time, you clearly shouldn't buy it - not if you care about value, getting the most bang for your buck and all of that. And, if you don't care about value then the 4090 is probably the better choice anyway."

Hardly a 'glowing' review.

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JediFragger · 5 Aug 2023 at 14:32

Grim5 said:
79% of the 4090 for the XTX

I'd like to see this comparison done on more recent drivers tbh, XTX/XT have both had a nice bump lately. Hopefully we'll get that with the new releases soon.

uscool · 5 Aug 2023 at 14:33

humbug said:
The 4080 is probably the worst offender among these 40 series cards, HUB gave it a glowing review, i don't so much have a problem with that it is a good GPU, but not that good, they utterly failed to call Nvidia out on the insane pricing, basically they avoided any criticism laid at Nvidia at all.

When it came to the 7900XT the tone was very different, they gave no credence to the GPU as a product, like they did the 4080, instead all they did was slam it for being overpriced, which it was but not like the 4080 was which they didn't slam for its price at all, and then said you should actually buy the 4080 instead before rounding the review out by saying its all so bad they told AIB's not to bother sending them any samples as they would not be reviewing them at all.

To me that was clearly pandering to an Nvidia review guide.

He said you clearly shouldn't buy it if you care for value

humbug · 5 Aug 2023 at 14:33

Aegis said:
Did we watch the same review video?

In his summary Steve states:

"We now know exactly how the RTX 4080 performs, but at this point in time, you clearly shouldn't buy it - not if you care about value, getting the most bang for your buck and all of that. And, if you don't care about value then the 4090 is probably the better choice anyway."

Hardly a 'glowing' review.

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Yeah i saw, don't buy the 4080, buy the 4090 instead, and when it comes to the 7900XT its don't buy that buy the 4080....... now he's marketed them both.

Aegis · 5 Aug 2023 at 14:37

humbug said:
Yeah i saw, don't buy the 4080, buy the 4090 instead, and when it comes to the 7900XT its don't buy that buy the 4080....... now he's marketed them both.

"if you don't care about value then the 4090 is probably the better choice."

How is that statement wrong? If money is no object, the 4090 *is* the best GPU currently available.

That's hardly an 'endorsement' though.

TNA · 5 Aug 2023 at 14:38

GhostDog1981 said:
Radeon division probably sees all the negativity and decided there’s no point spending resources trying to create high end dGPUs as people will just buy a 4090/5090/6090 etc. don’t blame them (AMD) tbh.

So rather than rising to the challenge they gave up?

People used to say poor AMD, their R&D budget is too small as all money is going to zen. Now they have lots of money, but apparently they have given up.

Poor poor AMD...

JediFragger · 5 Aug 2023 at 14:39

TNA said:
Poor poor AMD...

I like what they do tbh, they tend to do it a little differently (yes yes including coming 2nd)

But more than fast enough to get the job done

(RT still total guff anyhow, not worth the fps hit as per)

uscool · 5 Aug 2023 at 14:39

JediFragger said:
I'd like to see this comparison done on more recent drivers tbh, XTX/XT have both had a nice bump lately. Hopefully we'll get that with the new releases soon.

on what games ? I've only seen it on Forza 5 which was broken on card release and other one improved on tlou I've only watched Hubs 15 game average

Over 30+ games tested would be nice to get accurate idea

JediFragger · 5 Aug 2023 at 14:40

uscool said:
Over 30+ games tested would be nice to get accurate idea

Yes, this is what I meant.

uscool · 5 Aug 2023 at 14:41

humbug said:
Yeah i saw, don't buy the 4080, buy the 4090 instead, and when it comes to the 7900XT its don't buy that buy the 4080....... now he's marketed them both.

are you watching these reviews?

Xtx/xt wasn't released at the time when he reviewed the 4080 he even mentioned to wait for xtx and see what it's about he even said the xtx should be faster in raster

Don't think he mentioned the xt but it was set at $900 and $1000 for xtx

One of the negatives when you release later

TNA · 5 Aug 2023 at 14:43

JediFragger said:
I like what they do tbh, they tend to do it a little differently (yes yes including coming 2nd) But more than fast enough to get the job done (RT still total guff anyhow, not worth the fps hit as per)

Sure but clearly they could be doing better. They have the resources now too.

If nothing at least come out with sane prices on launch.

Aegis · 5 Aug 2023 at 14:55

humbug said:
Yeah i saw, don't buy the 4080, buy the 4090 instead, and when it comes to the 7900XT its don't buy that buy the 4080....... now he's marketed them both.

In HUB's review for the 7900XT Steve says:

"Basically there is no reason to buy the Radeon RX 7900XT, you'd always spend the $100 more to get the XTX version."

Which, at the time (and pricing) was absolutely true.

Also,

"If you're going to spend such a massive sum of money on a graphics card (the XTX) you might as well dig deep for another $200 and get the RTX 4080 for that DLSS support, NVENC and vastly superior ray-tracing - which kind of sucks because as we've said, the RTX 4080 kind of sucks at $1200."

Now, you might see that as bias - but at the time, and for the prices AMD was asking, I think HUB's comments were perfectly fair.

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CAT-THE-FIFTH · 5 Aug 2023 at 15:24

TNA said:
Sure but clearly they could be doing better. They have the resources now too.

If nothing at least come out with sane prices on launch.

Nobody is forcing them to upsell Navi 32 as the RX7800XT,unless Navi 32 is some HD4870 level moment,and thrashes an RX6800XT.The RTX4070 is terrible value.They seem to be copying Nvidia!

humbug · 5 Aug 2023 at 15:33

Aegis said:
In HUB's review for the 7900XT Steve says:

"Basically there is no reason to buy the Radeon RX 7900XT, you'd always spend the $100 more to get the XTX version."

Which, at the time (and pricing) was absolutely true.

Also,

"If you're going to spend such a massive sum of money on a graphics card (the XTX) you might as well dig deep for another $200 and get the RTX 4080 for that DLSS support, NVENC and vastly superior ray-tracing - which kind of sucks because as we've said, the RTX 4080 kind of sucks at $1200."

Now, you might see that as bias - but at the time, and for the prices AMD was asking, I think HUB's comments were perfectly fair.

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What he said in the 7900XTX review.

Referring to the 4080 he said "why would you care about the extra $200, wouldn't you just buy the superior product"

Its superior because RT and DLSS. Again up-selling the 4080.

TNA · 5 Aug 2023 at 15:33

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Nobody is forcing them to upsell Navi 32 as the RX7800XT,unless Navi 32 is some HD4870 level moment,and thrashes an RX6800XT.The RTX4070 is terrible value.They seem to be copying Nvidia!

Those were the days man. HD4870 was one of my favourite cards. I think I got it for around £200 and it was much faster than a 8800 GTX which used to cost like double that or more I think?

What a cracking card. That's what I want to see. That is why I kept buying AMD all the time back then.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 5 Aug 2023 at 15:38

TNA said:
Those were the days man. HD4870 was one of my favourite cards. I think I got it for around £200 and it was much faster than a 8800 GTX which used to cost like double that or more I think?

What a cracking card. That's what I want to see. That is why I kept buying AMD all the time back then.

You know what they are probably going to do right? The RX6800XT was $650,the RX6800 was $580 and RTX4070 is $600.

They will probably price it at $580,saying it matches the RX6800XT whilst being $70 less,and is $20 less than an RTX4070 with more VRAM. The same as Nvidia using the RTX3080 and RTX3070TI to compare the RTX4070 to,but not the RTX3070 or RTX3060TI.

Technical victory.

humbug · 5 Aug 2023 at 15:42

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
You know what they are probably going to do right? The RX6800XT was $650,the RX6800 was $580 and RTX4070 is $600.

They will probably price it at $580,saying it matches the RX6800XT whilst being $70 less,and is $20 less than an RTX4070 with more VRAM. The same as Nvidia using the RTX3080 and RTX3070TI to compare the RTX4070 to,but not the RTX3070 or RTX3060TI.

Technical victory.

They must know they wont sell any if they do that, $20 less is the same price, if they do that its because they haven't made any and don't want to sell any.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 5 Aug 2023 at 15:51

humbug said:
They must know they wont sell any if they do that, $20 less is the same price, if they do that its because they haven't made any and don't want to sell any.

The naming is cynical. Now if Navi 32 is some Radeon R700,and RDNA3 is fixed,etc maybe we could be seeing some 3GHZ monster of a mainstream dGPU. Maybe it is justified.

But the fact AMD wants to call this a RX7800XT and not an RX7800,and the fact the RX7900XT is £700 and above means there is a huge gap. So unless AMD releases an RX7900 16GB which is their RTX4070 competitor,the RX7800XT is going to be a £500+ card. Where is the RX7800 then? I doubt it will be under £500 too.

So where does that place the RX7700XT? Its going to be a cutdown Navi32 chip possibly a third level salvage,and probably will be priced more than an RTX4060TI. Last generation we got a fully enabled 335MM2 Navi 22 from £420 onwards.

This increasing is feeling like this:

Nvidia settles price-fixing lawsuit

Out-of-court deal cut with plaintiffs

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AMD might technically win as they offer more VRAM,but the Nvidia offerings are atrocious value. The RTX4070 was 45% faster than an RTX3060TI for 60% more money at launch.