The Manchester United Club Thread **Sponsored by Comedy Central**

fez said:
Yes I did, because when it comes to morals vs money, football goes to one side and its not morals. I don't know how this is being so misconstrued by you. I'm not saying football doesn't do the right thing when its cheap, easy and probably makes them money. Like, I don't know, anti-racism grandstanding.



Christ man, how are you still conflating my views on what football should be vs what football is? Also, most billion dollar companies don't have values. They claim they do but when it comes down to it they simply don't. Its better financially to have as few morals as you can get away with.

Again, just in case you are still struggling. I am not saying Greenwood should play for the club again. I am saying that a £100m asset is not going to be discarded easily or quickly by a football club on moral grounds. They are currently deciding if they can get away with bringing him back. That much is clear to me.




Again, that has nothing to do with this discussion. Anti-racism campaigns aren't costing clubs money. You know how Disney has certain things in its films and then cuts them from their releases in certain countries. They do that because it keeps everyone happy. The West thinks its being progressive and the likes of China don't have to see it. This is what I mean by amoral. They don't truly care and if they can earn brownie points by doing the right thing and it costs them very little they will of course do it. Amoral doesn't mean evil or bad.

Again, just for clarity, we shouldn't accept racism in sport and that was never the argument.




I'm sorry, where did I say violence to women was acceptable. I feel like I need to spell everything out in short sentences in case I am not being clear. Mason Greenwood should not be beating his partner. Hopefully he has learned that is wrong and unacceptable. Hoping that the victim of domestic abuse can find the strength to leave their abuser and prosecute them is not wrong.
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I'm not struggling with anything fez, the only one struggling here is you trying to justify why Mason Greenwood should be brought back into the United squad.

I'm genuinely surprised we have people trying to justify this with such excuses as football has no morals, he's just a kid and made a mistake.
 
Mekrel said:
I think fez very much thinks it's acceptable. Using the term "pre-programmed" to describe the response the women's football team will have on Greenwood tells me that he believes they can only possibly saying they don't agree with it, because they've been told that's how they should feel. Heaven forbid these women have the opinion that domestic abuse and violence against women could be excused if a world wide brand such as Manchester United could be seen as normalising it by bringing Mason Greenwood back into the squad.
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My word man, I feel like I could say 3 words to you and you could extrapolate my entire belief system from it. What do you think would happen if one of the United Womens team came out and said "Greenwood made a huge mistake but I believe that people can learn and change and that people deserve second chances". Do you think that would go down even remotely well. People in public facing positions don't have the luxury of speaking their mind freely without repercussions.

I imagine that the majority if not all of them feel strongly that he shouldn't play for United again. Perhaps some don't. I'm simply not naive enough to think that public statements are proof of any opinion. Henderson has just gone to a country well known for their mistreatment of LGBT groups after strongly voicing his support for them repeatedly. My shock is not immeasurable.
 
Calpol said:
Now you are being ridiculous. You clearly have not fully read my posts on this.
How would your 19yo self (assuming you have reached that age) have handled being torpedoed into stardom and £4m a year in your pocket.
Anyway, I'm out of this discussion now. Thank you
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Yeah I imagine it's really difficult, still wouldn't have sexually assaulted anyone.
 
Shamikebab said:
Mekrel I think you're really confused. Fez isn't defending Greenwood at all, he's saying what the club will think.
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fez said:
My word man, I feel like I could say 3 words to you and you could extrapolate my entire belief system from it. What do you think would happen if one of the United Womens team came out and said "Greenwood made a huge mistake but I believe that people can learn and change and that people deserve second chances". Do you think that would go down even remotely well. People in public facing positions don't have the luxury of speaking their mind freely without repercussions.

I imagine that the majority if not all of them feel strongly that he shouldn't play for United again. Perhaps some don't. I'm simply not naive enough to think that public statements are proof of any opinion. Henderson has just gone to a country well known for their mistreatment of LGBT groups after strongly voicing his support for them repeatedly. My shock is not immeasurable.
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Fair enough, although I don't see why you've quoted my response which is my personal preference of what I want to happen, with what you think the club will do. I think there would be been less confusion if you would have said something like "I don't think he should be allowed back, but unfortunately, I think the club will try and justify keeping him".

My apologies, I incorrectly conflated your opinion of the club's stance with your own.
 
Mekrel said:
Fair enough, although I don't see why you've quoted my response which is my personal preference of what I want to happen, with what you think the club will do. I think there would be been less confusion if you would have said something like "I don't think he should be allowed back, but unfortunately, I think the club will try and justify keeping him".

My apologies, I incorrectly conflated your opinion of the club's stance with your own.
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Thats OK. I thought I was being reasonably clear but probably because I have said previously on this topic that I don't think he should be allowed back. I have a somewhat jaded view of the world when it comes to large amounts of money and I am rarely proved wrong unfortunately.

United are dragging their feet for one reason and its clear what that is.
 
Mekrel said:
I really don't understand the point you're trying to make with the whole there are no morals in football. I would hope Manchester United, the club I support, can make the right decision and not use historical bad decisions to justify making another of their own.
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We just had a World Cup in a country where homosexuality is punishable by death (it's rarely ever enforced, but still). The very same country that want to buy our club.
 
Robbo said:
We just had a World Cup in a country where homosexuality is punishable by death (it's rarely ever enforced, but still). The very same country that want to buy our club.
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On this subject (the Qatari ownership), I'm completely against it - genuinely, I'll just give up on football or I'll just go watch my local team who are in League One. It's been proven FIFA were (maybe still are), corrupt as hell.

It's a shame Premiership club rugby is in such a state, used to enjoy watching my local Premiership team until they had to move in order to stay afloat.
 
Whenever players in similar situations return to a club or join a new club the backlash is huge and it doesn't work out. I think the only option if they do decide to keep him is to send him out on loan abroad for a few years and wait for his story to be old news. Its easy to pass judgement from the outside but you have to wonder how messed up these peoples lives are the fact that they are now having a child together after all of this.
 
Though at some point the club are going to have to grasp the nettle with this issue one way or the other so maybe they have.

It'll be a circus whatever they do so they might as well get the caravans rolling.
 
Calpol said:
Allegedly :)
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Then why in the last 18 months has she not come out and cleared his name. They are back together, they have a child together. She released the original 'evidence' it wouldn't take 5 minutes to put out a statement of 'misunderstanding'. He would already be back playing.

Why not, because he might 'allegedly' do it again. She can't lie and say it was a misunderstanding because when he inevitably beats her again no one would believe her.
 
he denied all charges from the start, did he change his mind later? I mean with the audio and images, I certainly would admit to them. If hes still denies the charges and the new evidence and whatever else it was that made the case dropped, surely that means something fishy was going on?
 
Droolinggimp said:
he denied all charges from the start, did he change his mind later? I mean with the audio and images, I certainly would admit to them. If hes still denies the charges and the new evidence and whatever else it was that made the case dropped, surely that means something fishy was going on?
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Was there new evidence? It’s massively hard to get a conviction without cooperation from the victim and by all accounts she stopped cooperating. The CPS can still prosecute but they have to be able to prove their case or they can’t bring it to court.

None of this is proof of anything other than a lack of concrete proof in the prosecutions hands.
 
fez said:
Was there new evidence? It’s massively hard to get a conviction without cooperation from the victim and by all accounts she stopped cooperating. The CPS can still prosecute but they have to be able to prove their case or they can’t bring it to court.

None of this is proof of anything other than a lack of concrete proof in the prosecutions hands.
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I thought there was new evidence. Could be wrong and misinterpreted it.

Edit

‘In this case a combination of the withdrawal of key witnesses and new material that came to light meant there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction. In these circumstances, we are under a duty to stop the case.’
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New material. Not evidence, my bad.

source
 
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I'm a bit conflicted on the Greenwood issue. On the one hand, it's an immense privilege to play sport at that level and players should be keeping themselves squeaky clean on and off the pitch in return for the millions they're getting paid.

On the other hand, he's barely more than a kid. People should have an opportunity to redeem themselves.

From a club point of view, I think he's best doing that elsewhere though.
 
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