Israel-Hamas war - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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I wonder if this is a faction of Hamas rather than the whole organisation, much like we had troubles dealing with the IRA and some of them didn't agree with the peace negotiations.
 
thenewoc said:
I wonder if this is a faction of Hamas rather than the whole organisation, much like we had troubles dealing with the IRA and some of them didn't agree with the peace negotiations.
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Given the scale of the attack I have to imagine that this wasn't a splinter group operation.
 
Richie said:
Huh?

You brought up the Canaanites from over 2000 years ago to counter an argument and now, once challenged, you've pivoted towards something else as if it's the same.... You need to be at least a little consistent with your arguments.

Yes, the exodus you now to refer to was wrong but please note that some of this exodus was not forced. Some of it was voluntary migration to the newly formed Israeli state by the UK which was created to give Jewish people a safe country and one to call their own due to mass persecution after WW2.

Yes, some of it was forced and this was wrong but isn't this what Israelis are carrying out in the West Bank just now and forcing the Palestinians out?

That's the issue I have with the whole thing as my very first post in this thread stated... The hypocrisy of the Israelis is crazy. They were given land but they aren't happy with that. They now want to take over more land and to hell with the native population.

You know, the same people that have cultivated a worldwide impression as being mercilessly persecuted since time began to the point where, if you disagree with anything they say/do now, it's touted as anti-semetic...
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You seem to misunderstand your history. The Jews owned land the already. They were given land for a state which they accepted.

It wasn't ideal but was accepted. The local Arabs rejected it. Then they along with Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Egypt attacked Israel and lost.

In the aftermath the Jews managed to increase the land under their control. The locals had fled as they were told by the other Arabs to leave (in many cases) and return when the Jews had been eradicated.

This never happened and was known as the Nakbah. Since then, apart from a number of other wars started by the Arab nations (including 1967!) there were a number of peace agreements where the Palestinians under Yasser Arafat where granted 97% of what they wanted but this was turned down.

Since then, the two state solution has died and is unlikely to ever return. Israel has decided to live with the status quo so long as acts of terror like today don't occur. The only other solution is to actually do what they are always incorrectly accused of and enact an apartheid state or conduct ethnic cleansing or just finally take over the West Bank and Gaza and displace all the Arabs living there.

All these people who accuse Israel of wilfully murdering civilians, illegally occupying land, running an Apartheid state are actually ignorant and quite frankly not worth my time nor yours in refuting. They ignore facts or misrepresent them as they see fit.

Israeli military strikes are generally surgical and are often called off when civilians are noted (i e. Put there as human shields by Hamad et al). It is a very well known fact and unknown of anywhere else in the world.

Do mistakes happen? Is there collateral damage? Yes but it is the exception rather than the rule. To say otherwise is blatantly ignorant.

I am unlikely to respond further as it would literally be like flogging a dead horse. They will continue to spout the same rhetoric, not acknowledge they are wrong, ignore the entire "Palestinian Hollywood" industry and blindly go about how many civilians are targeted and systematically murdered in ethnic cleansing by the genocidal Jewish Nazis (or fascists) in the Apartheid state that is illegally occupying "Palestinian " land that was stolen blah blah blah.

You will never change them. Rather let them spend their time around a camp fire working themselves into a rage induced froth and spend your time doing something more productive.
 
thenewoc said:
I wonder if this is a faction of Hamas rather than the whole organisation, much like we had troubles dealing with the IRA and some of them didn't agree with the peace negotiations.
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Biden just gave Iran 6b dollars, it's coordinated with the wider islamic extremists of the area.
 
Trusty said:
Your original post suggested that the state of Isreal shouldn't exist.
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Well that's your fault for reading it like that....just so it's clear:

Israel was created to give a safe place for the Jewish. No problem with that. The issue I have is that they are now occupying Palestinian territories and inserting themselves in there by building villages and forcing the native Palestinian population out... That's the problem I have and the hypocrisy surrounding it.

The Jewish have always stood behind a narrative that they have been persecuted since time immemorial and constantly driven out of where they live and, yet, they are doing the very same to another group of people

They have, quite impressively, created a global culture that they are always the victim and never the aggressor to the point that anyone questioning or disagreeing with them over the slightest issue is condemned as an Anti-Semite.... All conversations that they don't like are shut down under this umbrella as well..

Basically it means that, if you don't support them, you're a bigot.
 
Footage released by Hamas suggests that the amount of Israeli tanks, IFVs and APCs captured around Gaza is in several dozen. Enough for at least two battalions. How were these bases overrun so easily?
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The Israeli National Security Council has Approved for Ground Operations to begin in the Gaza Strip.
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Richie said:
[Israel] have, quite impressively, created a global culture that they are always the victim and never the aggressor to the point that anyone questioning or disagreeing with them over the slightest issue is condemned as an Anti-Semite.... All conversations that they don't like are shut down under this umbrella as well..

Basically it means that, if you don't support them, you're a bigot.
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Exactly the same thing happens for Palestinians, ppl get called Islamophobic.

Neither is particularly more virtuous than the other, so you may as well just side with the one you'd rather won.
 
megatron said:
Judaism predates Christianity. Christianity predates Islam & futhermore was ihmo "invented" to exploit the inherent weakness of a pacifist religion. I'd be very interested in your explaination of how Israel doesn't belong to the Jews. Or are you one of those Lefties who believe Britain should also be an Islamic state; because you know "reparations".
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Is that more a case of Israelis settling on land that now belongs to Palestinians rather than the Israel state? I only saw what you quoted from @Freefaller but it seems you missed the point and waffled instead. Maybe im wrong.
 
Noughtboy said:
You seem to misunderstand your history. The Jews owned land the already. They were given land for a state which they accepted.

It wasn't ideal but was accepted. The local Arabs rejected it. Then they along with Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Egypt attacked Israel and lost. <snip>
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I haven't disputed any of that or what you said after (heck of a long quote so didn't want to flood the thread with the rest)

You are misunderstanding me.

Who is doing the systematic hostile occupation of Palestinian land over the last few years?

The borders of Israel, West Bank and Gaza strip are drawn... As you.say, Israel gained more land than the originally established Israel after conflict yet want more by moving populations into Palestinian areas and taking over... Almost akin to a virus or Cuckoo (the bird)

The systematic takeover is what I have the issue with... Together with the hypocrisy that comes with it.
 
Richie said:
Well that's your fault for reading it like that....just so it's clear:

Israel was created to give a safe place for the Jewish. No problem with that. The issue I have is that they are now occupying Palestinian territories and inserting themselves in there by building villages and forcing the native Palestinian population out... That's the problem I have and the hypocrisy surrounding it.

The Jewish have always stood behind a narrative that they have been persecuted since time immemorial and constantly driven out of where they live and, yet, they are doing the very same to another group of people

They have, quite impressively, created a global culture that they are always the victim and never the aggressor to the point that anyone questioning or disagreeing with them over the slightest issue is condemned as an Anti-Semite.... All conversations that they don't like are shut down under this umbrella as well..

Basically it means that, if you don't support them, you're a bigot.
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I'm not saying if you don't support them, you're a bigot, maybe there are few people that do that, but i'm not.

Palestinians is poor word to use, it doesn't categorise the situation, which is important to do. Christian Palestinians, there are no issues, they get caught up in it all, but they can live in harmony. Generally speaking, if Palestine was occupied by Christians, and not the factions of extremist Islamists, it wouldn't be the tinderbox that it is. It's Muslims that are fighting Israel, i've shown you a link where those same Arab countries around Israel don't even recognise it as a country, they are extremely hostile to Isreal. Israel is accommodating to other faiths, proven by the fact they have 400 mosques in Israel, you don't see it the other way round though. You seem to be ignoring these really important and relevant points.
 
Noughtboy said:
Since then, the two state solution has died and is unlikely to ever return. Israel has decided to live with the status quo so long as acts of terror like today don't occur. The only other solution is to actually do what they are always incorrectly accused of and enact an apartheid state or conduct ethnic cleansing or just finally take over the West Bank and Gaza and displace all the Arabs living there.
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But that IS what's happening... Israelis are moving into and taking over Palestinian areas thereby displacing the Palestinians...

Are you saying that this is NOT happening?

It's quite obvious that Israel is not "happy with the status quo" as they seek to push Palestinians out as above
 
Semple said:
I'd genuinely like to know what Hamas are trying to achieve with that statement. Are they hinting at opening negotiation channels with Israel to return the prisoners if there's some kind of ceasefire?

Israel will just use that as an excuse that if they don't get their people back they'll just proceed to flatten the Gaza strip.
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Maybe they think they're going to work as human shields.

The way this attack was so visual as so designed to insight further violence in retribution. Civilian executions, rapes and kidnappings, all paraded in public. It serves absolutely no benefit to the people of Palestine.

I wonder if this is actually part of a wider plan by Iran to bait Israel into committing attrocities in Gaza, to rally other Muslim countries into a wider war.
 
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Bug One said:
Maybe they think they're going to work as human shields.

The way this attack was so visual as so designed to insight further violence in retribution. Civilian executions, rapes and kidnappings, all paraded in public. It serves absolutely no benefit to the people of Palestine.

I wonder if this is actually part of a wider plan by Iran to bait Israel into committing attrocities in Gaza, to rally other Muslim countries into a wider war.
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Yet Israel could slap most of them back down. It’s a bizarre move. All Hamas has done is given Israel an easy excuse to take over the strip with not a word that’ll be uttered by western nations other than support.
 
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