EV general discussion

[Penfold101]

Everyone’s driving requirements are different depending on accomodation, charging times, mileage, environmental concerns, etc.

EV will work for some, and currently not for others. I wasn’t planning on changing mine for a couple of years but my hand was forced when I accidentally wrote off my E Class, so I thought I’d take the plunge and see what the electric world was like. So far it’s working ok, and I’m saving a boat-load in fuel costs, but it’s definitely a change in how I approach motoring. I don’t know what will happen in the future, but I live now and I’m not thinking about the future value or how my 22 plate car will be scrapped…

 

[Haggisman]

Everyone’s driving requirements are different depending on accomodation, charging times, mileage, environmental concerns, etc.

EV will work for some, and currently not for others. I wasn’t planning on changing mine for a couple of years but my hand was forced when I accidentally wrote off my E Class, so I thought I’d take the plunge and see what the electric world was like. So far it’s working ok, and I’m saving a boat-load in fuel costs, but it’s definitely a change in how I approach motoring. I don’t know what will happen in the future, but I live now and I’m not thinking about the future value or how my 22 plate car will be scrapped…

Exactly. After I got rid of my Zoe I hated the ICE I went back to. Smelly, noisy, dirty, slow, an effort to drive, having to go to a petrol station to fill up every week - couldn't wait to get back into an EV. I'm not really bothered that it costs me a few ££ more overall, as the overall experience is far superior.

Now if I had to do 200+ mile trips a few times/week, I might change my tune, as the inconvenience and added cost of having to public charge frequently would probably tip the balance the other way, but for my current usage, an EV is far superior, and it certainly isn't anywhere near as "more expensive" as the anti-EV brigade claim.

 

[Nasher]

There's plenty of use left in the batteries.

Old Nissan LEAF Batteries Being Used For Grid-Scale Storage In California - CleanTechnica

Support CleanTechnica's work through a Substack subscription or on Stripe. “Buy low and sell high” may be the ultimate expression of how to be successful in business. It works, whether you are selling apples, oranges, or electricity. Most of us don’t realize how much the cost of electricity...

cleantechnica.com

There might be some use for them, but not on the retail market. Owners aren't going to be able to sell an EV with expired batteries for more than scrap value.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

There might be some use for them, but not on the retail market. Owners aren't going to be able to sell an EV with expired batteries for more than scrap value.

Indeed, but their 'scrap' value is a lot higher than a non-EV.

 

[Caracus2k]

An EV battery with 50% life remaining will still be worth significant money.

Solar storage batteries for homes cost about £5k per 10 kWh.
So, an EV which started life with a 75 kWh battery, which reduces to 50% capacity (37 kWh) after 'xx' years will still have a value around £15k with today's values. [A 37 kWh battery can power the average 3-4 family house for over 3 days !]

Battery packs in EV's have very poor dimensions for conversion to typical home use.

Given the (relatively) thin and wide/ long dimensions car usage requires for a battery.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Battery packs in EV's have very poor dimensions for conversion to typical home use.

Given the (relatively) thin and wide/ long dimensions car usage requires for a battery.

I don't think many people are going to be DIYing converting a car battery to a home battery. But there will be commercial recyclers doing exactly that, and selling the remanufactured / repackaged batteries back to installers for home use.

 

[Caracus2k]

I don't think many people are going to be DIYing converting a car battery to a home battery. But there will be commercial recyclers doing exactly that, and selling the remanufactured / repackaged batteries back to installers for home use.

The can't even repair cells in a damaged battery pack in a car and write cars of over suspected damage to their power packs from even minor damage.

But yet you apparently you beleive there will be a market for recycling many of today's battery packs by splitting up the cells to create different form factors......??


The picture for the example used for Leaf batteries above appears just to have the batteries installed, as they come out of the car, stacked side by side and one over the other in large industrial units.

 

[m4rmite]

The can't even repair cells in a damaged battery pack in a car and write cars of over suspected damage to their power packs from even minor damage.

But yet you apparently you beleive there will be a market for recycling many of today's battery packs by splitting up the cells to create different form factors......??


The picture for the example used for Leaf batteries above appears just to have the batteries installed, as they come out of the car, stacked side by side and one over the other in large industrial units.

What *Really* happens to used Electric Car Batteries? - (you might be surprised)

How are Lithium Batteries Recycled? Today we find out. Whether its Electric Car batteries, cell phone batteries, or tool batteries the process is all the sam...

youtu.be

Lithium battery recycling in action.
Next fud argument

 

[Caracus2k]

What *Really* happens to used Electric Car Batteries? - (you might be surprised)

How are Lithium Batteries Recycled? Today we find out. Whether its Electric Car batteries, cell phone batteries, or tool batteries the process is all the sam...

youtu.be

Lithium battery recycling in action.
Next fud argument

That's a company that recycles batteries to extract the materials they contain.

Not a company that is re using the battery cells themselves.

Maybe you should have watched the video and have read the thread before posting such cringe?

 

[Hawk Tuah]

The can't even repair cells in a damaged battery pack in a car and write cars of over suspected damage to their power packs from even minor damage.

But yet you apparently you beleive there will be a market for recycling many of today's battery packs by splitting up the cells to create different form factors......??


The picture for the example used for Leaf batteries above appears just to have the batteries installed, as they come out of the car, stacked side by side and one over the other in large industrial units.

Just because you don't know how to do something, doesn't mean it's not possible or even relatively difficult. There's loads of ways to re-use Leaf cells to create packs with different voltages that are more useful to for home storage.

You don't even need a Leaf - you could just buy the individual cells (or, sell them)

Nissan Leaf Battery Module Cell DIY Solar Li-ion Lithium Battery off grid | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Nissan Leaf Battery Module Cell DIY Solar Li-ion Lithium Battery off grid at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Caracus2k]

Just because you don't know how to do something,

Not just me apparently.... or do you think that insurers like scrapping cars and paying out thoose they insure?

doesn't mean it's not possible

Many things are possible. But that doesn't mean that they are practical, especially at scale.

or even relatively difficult. There's loads of ways to re-use Leaf cells to create packs with different voltages that are more useful to for home storage.

many leaf batteries are small by contenporary EV standars which is reflected in their low range and small vehicle size vs many other EV's.

So they may be more suitable for re use than many other batteries but battery packs with these sort of dimensions and modular construction are becoming less common in EV's

The Leaf has battery packs made up of modules that are easier to split and replace. The increased size of many modern EV's batteries makes that approach less feasible.

 

[jpaul]

Ze germans winning the award for charging station design - worth a few c/kWh more - doesn't show if covering roof has solar, too.

 

[Haggisman]

Not just me apparently.... or do you think that insurers like scrapping cars and paying out thoose they insure?

Or maybe you're thinking about it from the wrong angle - the scrap value is higher (due to battery) compared to repair costs, so they are more likely to write them off and sell them for a (decent) scrap value, than pay for expensive repairs.

That's a company that recycles batteries to extract the materials they contain.

Not a company that is re using the battery cells themselves.

Maybe you should have watched the video and have read the thread before posting such cringe?

Also this:

Nissan Starts Selling Portable Power Source With Old Leaf EV Batteries

By the looks of it, the unit has two high-power outputs, two USB-A and two USB-C outputs, a 12V socket, and what seems to be a solar power input.

insideevs.com

 

[throwaway4372]

Just because you don't know how to do something, doesn't mean it's not possible or even relatively difficult. There's loads of ways to re-use Leaf cells to create packs with different voltages that are more useful to for home storage.

You don't even need a Leaf - you could just buy the individual cells (or, sell them)

Nissan Leaf Battery Module Cell DIY Solar Li-ion Lithium Battery off grid | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Nissan Leaf Battery Module Cell DIY Solar Li-ion Lithium Battery off grid at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

my design (better not steal it), works for any model:

 

[bigmike20vt]

Or maybe you're thinking about it from the wrong angle - the scrap value is higher (due to battery) compared to repair costs, so they are more likely to write them off and sell them for a (decent) scrap value, than pay for expensive repairs.

be careful .......... tomorrow there will be a Sun article warning would be new EV car purchasers not to buy an EV because insurance companies will write them off in a small ding so they can asset strip the car and sell the battery

 

[Haggisman]

be careful .......... tomorrow there will be a Sun article warning would be new EV car purchasers not to buy an EV because insurance companies will write them off in a small ding so they can asset strip the car and sell the battery

It would be funny if that wasn't exactly the kind of nonsense they would come out with (and people would happily lap up)

 

[Jonnycoupe]

There might be some use for them, but not on the retail market. Owners aren't going to be able to sell an EV with expired batteries for more than scrap value.

Scrap value of BEV is much higher than ICE as they have more valuable scrap material…

So you are agreeing with yourself, you just don’t know it yet.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

IMO I still think end of life car batteries will go to grid storage as opposed to home.
Cutting down the car to a usable point where they can then just rack them (after attaching power and "CPU") is far far faster than recycling them into alternate packaging (ie another end user item)
If you have seen how modern vehicle dismantlers work this is what they do for much of the ICE dismantling.
Strip the valuable items by car (it varies by car) to a specific list and then they perform some minor (destructive) chassis dismantling.
You would do exactly the same for Evs. (bar a simpler step 1, fluid drains)
Remove valuable parts. Remove excess chassis. Sell battery chassis part to people who will grid store the vehicles in like stacks.

It will makes sense to do "like stacks" as they only need a single "CPU" per container then. All the same type only needs one set of software communication to talk to the batteries.
There will be plenty of like models coming through by then that the 12-36 (ish) needed per container (assuming they use shipping type size containers) will be really quick to fill.

Once they make no sense for grid storage then properly recycle at scale back into the raw materials.

There will 100% be some people who do DIY versions of above. Buy a knackered Ev and jerryrig it to the home. Thats fine if you have space for a spare car "parked" by your house.
The 30-40kwh of home storage a decent 50% depleted Ev will give you would be around 1m3 of specific home batteries. Far easier to place.
And reality is many people won't want or need 30-40kwh.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Old Jaguar I-Pace batteries to be given second life in energy plant | Autocar

Jaguar Land Rover announces partnership to re-use packs for grid-supporting Battery Energy Storage System

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[adam cool dude]

Then you're arguing against a point which nobody has made . I merely pointed out we're getting to the stage that an older EV is almost in the "old banger" ballpark.

Given the choice between a comparable ICE or EV, I'd rather have the EV which is going to cost me less to run, likely be more reliable, be far more pleasant to drive, and be more convenient the vast majority of the time, with the added bonus it's helping reduce localised air pollution.



So from your experiences of driving both, what is better about the Clio than the Zoe?

These are all your opinions though and not fact. For me at least the only point of an EV is as a cost saving exercise. If it cannot do that (Especially with the rubbish residuals) then an ICE car is far more enjoyable to drive and I can go distances in it without having to stop and wait to charge.

We have a pool car in our family that we use to commute to work. My daily commute is 11 miles and my wife's 26 miles so in theory an EV is perfect for us. When you break it down though it is 6600 miles a year or £1600 in fuel. That is on premium unleaded on a car that does 32mpg so by no means efficient way of using an ICE (GR86). Charging at home with an EV will save me around a grand a year in fuel costs or £83 a month.

For me at least it is not worth the hassle considering all the negatives (range, residuals, insurance costs etc). I cannot go and pick my mother up from Stansted on a single charge for example and the last thing I want to do is waiting for it charge on a 3.5-4 hour round trip. Plus I actually enjoy driving and when I finish work I love to have a little blast down country roads on my way home. EV's are completely soulless in that regard. Especially when you are in a ICE sportscar.