Poll: Official 2024 Belgian Grand Prix Race Thread - Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps - Race 14/24

Rate the Spa race out of ten

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Bit of a rookie error by Mercedes, feel sorry Lewis as well as George as he didn't get to celebrate his win, it seems likely he would've won if George's car wasn't underweight by 1.5kg.
 
Opening apology. Sorry, I've not read all the thread.

I've always thought it odd when teams make a decision to cover someone off, that could impact their overall race time. I mean, I do get it. If it's only a matter of a lap or two's difference and someone right behind you comes in, yeah, I get it, cover it. It doesn't really impact your race. I also get it if it's a really hard track to pass on. But, I think I've mentioned it before, sometimes they'll go long to create the fresher tyre advantage, then throw that advantage away pitting the second time cover off someone else. Was it Ferrari that did it yesterday? As well, perhaps, as Mercedes with Hamilton. Catching some of his comments after he was clearly annoyed George was allowed to do a one-stop making comments about how good his tyres felt when they called him in.

At the same time, should he not have just said 'No, these tyres are good, let me see what I can get from them'. As someone else said, how did so many judge tyre deg so badly? I know quali was wet, was practice wet too?
 
It’s a bit rubbish for George but the technical rules are black and white and you either comply or don’t. Wasn’t Lewis DSQ from Brazil 2021 qualifying for having a wing go a MM over?
 
AndyCr15 said:
Opening apology. Sorry, I've not read all the thread.

I've always thought it odd when teams make a decision to cover someone off, that could impact their overall race time. I mean, I do get it. If it's only a matter of a lap or two's difference and someone right behind you comes in, yeah, I get it, cover it. It doesn't really impact your race. I also get it if it's a really hard track to pass on. But, I think I've mentioned it before, sometimes they'll go long to create the fresher tyre advantage, then throw that advantage away pitting the second time cover off someone else. Was it Ferrari that did it yesterday? As well, perhaps, as Mercedes with Hamilton. Catching some of his comments after he was clearly annoyed George was allowed to do a one-stop making comments about how good his tyres felt when they called him in.

At the same time, should he not have just said 'No, these tyres are good, let me see what I can get from them'. As someone else said, how did so many judge tyre deg so badly? I know quali was wet, was practice wet too?
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I thinks it's unfair of Mercedes to tell one of their drivers to pit fairly early to cover off another driver from another team, whilst allowing the other driver to go on to a better strategy, gain track position, then hold them up massively and ultimately beat them.

A stark contrast from what McLaren did, who were insistent Norris give the place back to Piastri after giving him the better strategy.
 
Horner in the news suggesting that the one stop strategy might have been the cause of Russell's DQ. His suggestion is that the tyres would have lost ‘as least 1kg’ of rubber during the race.
 
Greboth said:
What?! McLaren obviously had an agreement in place to only race until the 2nd pitstop but strategy (to help Norris keep 2nd) meant deviating from that plan so they ordered the drivers to swap. Merc clearly had a 'let them race' attitude so there's no double standards as it's a different scenario.

But even ignoring it being different teams, you couldn't even call it double standard if it was McLaren. Each race may have different agreements and will have different strategies. If a team wants to use the same team orders as the last race - that's fine, if they choose to do the opposite of the last race - well that's their prerogative. It doesn't make it double standards.
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It's double standards in how they approached it.

Ultimately, the same thing happened. One of them was given a better strategy and track position even though the other one was ahead for the first half of the race on merit.

Lewis was screwed over by his own team.
 
Moley said:
Horner in the news suggesting that the one stop strategy might have been the cause of Russell's DQ. His suggestion is that the tyres would have lost ‘as least 1kg’ of rubber during the race.
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Several other drivers did a one stop and were fine.

Fuel was on the limit near the end; they had told Lewis to lift and coast quite early in the race so Merc possibly miscalculated the fuelling, ballast and what gets lost on the tyres with a one stop.
 
Jono8 said:
Ultimately, the same thing happened. One of them was given a better strategy and track position even though the other one was ahead for the first half of the race on merit.
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And?

Let’s break this down. What is a double standsrd? a set of standards (a policy or code) that apply differently to one person or a group.

On the face of it, then yes it’s a double standard. But remembering they are different teams it isn’t. McLaren’s ‘policy or code’ is/was to race to the 2nd stop. Mercedes is, as has almost always been the case, to let them race.

Or a more inane version, if Zak Brown buys his staff cake on their birthdays. Should Toto have to also? or, if he doesn’t, wouldn’t that be double standards?

Your basically arguing that all teams should always follow the same strategy, should always pit their drivers in order and that drivers can’t have any autonomy over their strategy.
 
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Terminal_Boy said:
Has Perez been sacked yet?
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They're just looking for a crate of spare Reb Bull to sweeten the severance package.

Shame. I've liked Sergio since his Sauber days when he seemed like he could always maximise his results. Felt he got rushed into McLaren but he found his home with Force India/Racing Point. The Red Bull moved felt like something he deserved and in 2021 he was a great team-mate to max but unfortunately in the results business that is competitive sports, he is becoming more and more of a liability than an asset.
 
Junglist said:
Shame. I've liked Sergio since his Sauber days when he seemed like he could always maximise his results.
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Sergio has always been a likeable driver, and he found his perfect niche at Force India, where it played to his skills, it was a shame he was forced out by the Lance's and I was glad he landed in Red Bull as a result. While he hasn't thrived there, he now leaves F1 with six wins - which is rather more than drivers of his skill usually manage - so I think it hasn't been the worst thing for him.
 
Can't blame Perez for this one. They ruined his race by pitting him way too early to get him out of the way of Verstappen. Would have been better just asking him to let Max past.
 
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Sergio was heading for the exit door before he was given the Red Bull reprieve; I actually thought his first season was decent but since then he’s been hugely inconsistent.

I suspect it’ll be Ricciardo in there until the end of the year, but I’m not convinced that he or Lawson are going to be much of an upgrade. Red Bull should be looking outside of their drivers for a partner to Max next season; Sainz would be the best best likely.

I suspect Tsunoda is being overlooked as he isn’t likely to be a long term Red Bull driver.
 
It may have felt like Sergio was maximising results in mid tier teams but given his pace relative to top drivers the reality is he almost certainly wasn't.

Too many overrate mid tier drivers, the skill difference between top and mid tier drivers is huge as evidenced by the 2021 season when both Hamilton and Verstappen made their team mates look like total bums.

That said he's got 6 wins, which is something most F1 drivers would kill for.
 
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Hawk Tuah said:
Can't blame Perez for this one. They ruined his race by pitting him way too early to get him out of the way of Verstappen. Would have been better just asking him to let Max past.
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There may be an element of pitting him early to compromise the other cars, but the undercut was a valid strategy. The problem was that Perez was just too slow to make it work.

chrismscotland said:
I suspect it’ll be Ricciardo in there until the end of the year, but I’m not convinced that he or Lawson are going to be much of an upgrade. Red Bull should be looking outside of their drivers for a partner to Max next season; Sainz would be the best best likely.

I suspect Tsunoda is being overlooked as he isn’t likely to be a long term Red Bull driver.
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Red Bull seem to have something against Tsunoda, and I can't actually see him working well as a second driver. Lawson is hard to assess, I didn't rate him until his stint as DR's replacement but during that he seemed Tsunoda's equal with minimal preparation - I think he will be decently impressive with time to grow. Red Bull is the worst place to try and do that though. Max is a brutal teammate and also all RB is focused on. Ricciardo, I expect, will end up being the driver - and I also think he's the best choice. He did well against Max before, and I think he'll be happy to be back in a car that can win races. Sainz was devastated by Max when they raced together before, and their respective camps despise each other. Sainz might be the better driver, but taking him would cause yet more internal strife for the team - not a good trade off.

imtoooldforthis said:
It may have felt like Sergio was maximising results in mid tier teams but given his pace relative to top drivers the reality is he almost certainly wasn't
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Sergio's skill was always making the alternative strategy work. That gets great results in mid tier teams, but it isn't the skill needed in top teams. I'm not sure top drivers would have done much better in those mid-tier drives.
 
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