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Yeah that's good info for people generally. Fairly confident my pensions didn't have it, and I consolidated into SIPP anyway so defo don't have it now.
Financial Independence Retire Early (FIRE)
- Thread starter throwaway4372
- Start date
Of course it is. If everyone had financial independence the rich wouldnt stay rich.
When 65% of people in the UK couldnt last 3 months without borrowing money and about 34% of adults have <£1k in savings, you seriously think they have enough money to even consider financial indepenence? https://www.money.co.uk/savings-accounts/savings-statistics
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Have you ever wondered why we pay tax?
who do you think will pay for the military, police, infrastructure, health care if you only pay for "a correct level of tax for what they buy/consume"?
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/me notes the lack of military, police, infrastructure, doctors and dentists. We apparently pay tax for idk what.
I could only dream of having taxation rates as low as the UK.
Health care “should” be paid by NI… the infrastructures should pay for themselves.. road tax/rail fees/water rates/fuel taxes…
There’s enough ways to tax goods to pay for military, police and fire service. And having the correct level doesn’t mean having no tax at all.
If we look at Singapore for example, the highest tax rate is 24% as they place more taxation on consumption. Not saying Singapore is perfect but Boris used it as an example when he said that Britain can be the Singapore of Europe.
Your problem is listening to anything Boris said.
Hey even a broken clock is right twice a day, and Boris was very broken.
But one could argue that the UK attitudes are anti-FIRE as well, which isn't the case in other developed countries. People here seem to want you to do badly - they want you to be like everyone else and just 'put up with it'.
Whereas success and breakthrough from the everday feels like the lifeblood of some cultures, and celebrated as such.
True, although my statement also regards the desire/drive to do anything different. I get weird looks at just the desire to pursue FIRE, which should be a relatable thing, even from those who are nowhere near achieving it. But no...
So you want a form of income tax then, right.
This would require massive increases in these taxes. Roads would likely all jave to become toll roads. Because transportation is critical for everything such as transporting food there would be a very high inflation.
How? The UK already has a 20% VAT rate. How much higher do you think it could go?
Have you not thought that taxes are already at a correct level, or perhaps are actually lower than the correct level and need to be increased?
You ate seriously quoting something Boris said? Do you have any clue about Singapore?
Also, looking at headline federal tax rates can be very misguided. I live in Switzerland, the Federal Income tax is only 11.5%. However, cantonal taxes are 20-40% depending where you live, then communal taxes are paid top and can almost double federal taxes. And then there are property taxes, wealth taxes, house owners taxes, etc. I don't know about Singapore but i suspect there is a lot of additional taxation you just don't see in headline federal rates.
The whole point of this thread is to discuss FIRE and all I’m saying is the UK tax system certainly doesn’t help it as much as countries like Singapore and as you brought it up Switzerland, other countries like UAE, all then to have a much lower income tax then put the effort in taxing consumption rather than income.
If a person is trying to FIRE, obviously they will be saving more than they consume, therefore they should be paying less taxes in countries with lower income tax and higher consumption taxes.
There are many tax loopholes in the UK, heck the British invented off shore banking, but they all require a certain level of wealth or income in the first place to be effective.
Pensions are still aged locked and most will only allow you to access them, unless you have a major health issue; 10 years before the state pension. Surely you are better off looking at putting a percentage into an ISAs or investing in other sources of income, like a second house so you can become FIRE even earlier?
I’m now putting 15% away with work contributions being 10%, the only reason why I’m putting 15% away is to drop my tax rate down and to allow for a buffer for investments interest and dividends. Any difference between the amount I could put into my pension and what I am putting in to it, is getting placed into ISAs.
Maybe in a few years time, I can afford to put in the max of 60k per year but it’s more than likely that I would have had enough of working by then.
But you aren't going to get anywhere with what the government is providing. They don't want people being financially independent and not having to work.
Soldato
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That is not discussing fire, this is blaming the situation.
I might well agree with you on many points, However when it comes to fire its about the individual and what there is to do to achieve the goal.
I am not currently financially independent, therefore i am not working enough, this applies to anyone reading this post.
Don't just mention the bad though, the UK provides the perfect tool for 'normal' people to get into FIRE - the ISA with a huge limit per year, its the perfect vehicle for FIRE. A wrapper allowing tax free compounding, tax free gains, dividends, interest etc, withdrawals. Honestly people are so intent on hating the UK they don't realise how powerful the ISA can be.
Exactly, i could only dream of something as flexible as an ISA. In Switzerland the main pension (pillar 2) is mandatory znd goes into a pension fund which offers precisely zero control over the money. I literally only get a return of 1.25% , and that only on a portion of the pension. Overall it has provided less than inflation returns for the last few years.
Actually my point was other countries might have lower headline federal income tax rates but the total income tax is high. My overall tax is something like 37%. Marginal rate somewhere around 50%. Switzerland and other countries are not necessarily friendlier to FIRE - Switzerland has a wealth tax for starters. VAT is only 7.x% in Switzerland, so it is certainly not weighted towards consumption taxes
Also, on average the UK's income tax is quite low. Some of the lowest taxes in Europe!
The UK has extremely high consumption taxes, VAT is 20%, stamp duty on house purchases etc. There is no wealth or property taxes in the UK making FIRE easier than many countries.
But contributing to an ISA is a perfect Tax reduction tool and goes a long way in helping to achieve FIRE