Ah you're half vegan then!I love veg but only with meat
Why aren't vegans eating the food they ask for?
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I'm sure they said that before, and companies like Oatly, impossible burger are losing money all over the place because the projected demand doesn't seem to tie with reality.
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Soldato
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lol, were still living rent free in your head I see.
Plant based diets can be super cheap, depends what you eat. Rice, beans, tofu are some of the cheapest foods.
Its easy to be "happy about your decision" when youre not the one being stabbed though mate isnt it.
Im not an enviromentalist because veganism isnt about the climate, but iirc its the most impact you can have on the planet with your day to day choices.
Look at the impact of dairy..... shocking amount of land use, water use, emissions and more importantly all the individuals being exploited and killed for their milk.
Dairy vs. plant-based milk: what are the environmental impacts?
A growing number of people are interested in switching to plant-based alternatives to dairy. But are they better for the environment, and which is best?
ourworldindata.org
If the world adopted a plant-based diet, we would reduce global agricultural land use from 4 to 1 billion hectares
We could reduce the amount of land used for grazing and croplands used to grow animal feed.
ourworldindata.org
We're*
Soldato
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veganism isnt *just* about the climate however i suspect you will find that a lot of people drawn to vegetarianism and a certain amount veganism as well IS because of the environment and as such from those people at least they will pick the meat free products which are more sustainable and still ignore the stuff which isnt.Im not an enviromentalist because veganism isnt about the climate, but iirc its the most impact you can have on the planet with your day to day choices.
Look at the impact of dairy..... shocking amount of land use, water use, emissions and more importantly all the individuals being exploited and killed for their milk.
Dairy vs. plant-based milk: what are the environmental impacts?
A growing number of people are interested in switching to plant-based alternatives to dairy. But are they better for the environment, and which is best?
If the world adopted a plant-based diet, we would reduce global agricultural land use from 4 to 1 billion hectares
We could reduce the amount of land used for grazing and croplands used to grow animal feed.
I am not a vegan, i wont ever be one unless the choice is taken away from me (which could happen at some point but probably not in my lifetime) but i am looking to make more sustainable choices *some* of the time.........
I believe stuff like the impossible burger** etc are aimed at people like me rather than proper vegans who claim even the thought of meat makes them feel sick.
**i use that example only because its a popular one that most have heard off... i have never actually seen it for sale, either reduced OR full price to be honest.
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Its that lack of B12 and Iron getting to their brains
That being said, there are a lot of people who shout very very loudly about their views and morals who, when the chips are down, don't make even a token effort to support those causes.
Think womens sport. The number of people who complain about women not getting paid what they should vs men who have never once in their lives actually gone and paid to watch womens sport is astonishing. Well, I say astonishing, its not, its obvious, but the hypocrisy is ridiculous.
Soldato
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i dont pay to watch either...... and i think they are all paid too much at least at the sharp endIts that lack of B12 and Iron getting to their brains
That being said, there are a lot of people who shout very very loudly about their views and morals who, when the chips are down, don't make even a token effort to support those causes.
Think womens sport. The number of people who complain about women not getting paid what they should vs men who have never once in their lives actually gone and paid to watch womens sport is astonishing. Well, I say astonishing, its not, its obvious, but the hypocrisy is ridiculous.
Man of Honour
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Somewhat of an overdramatisation - I get it... you find it horrible.
Using terms like "stabbed" to me is just deliberate emotional hyperbole designed to shock and provoke, rather than trying to engage in a reasoned discussion. You're painting a picture of malicious violence that misrepresents regulated slaughter processes, even if you disagree with the outcome. You also can't dismiss regulation and welfare efforts. There are MANY regulations in place (overseen by bodies like DEFRA and the FSA in the UK) designed to ensure animals are treated humanely within the system, including minimising pain and distress at slaughter. While I know vegans like yourself oppose the system itself, inflammatory language ignores any attempts at welfare within it. I accept that this isn't global, and there is a LOT of inhumane animal slaughter in the world, and I vehemently disagree with it, which is why where possible, I make sure I buy food from good reputable sources.
Attributing human-specific concepts like "murder" (not you but other vegans say it) and "stabbing" to the act of killing animals for food is excessive anthropomorphism. Whilst I agree animals are sentient, applying human specific legal and moral frameworks wholesale is problematic and shuts down discussion about the real ethical complexities, rather than prove the point you're trying to make.
Our omnivorous nature isn't just tradition; it's biology. Humans evolved the capacity to digest and derive nutrients from both plants and animals. This biological reality has shaped cultures and cuisines globally for millennia (in fact we know that humans (before classified as homosapiens) were eating meat over 2m years ago. I accept that this is an "appeal to nature" fallacy which doesn't automatically make it right but it's worth pointing out). While modern society offers choices, acknowledging this biological and historical context is important whether you agree with it or not.
Again you can be healthy as a vegan as you've pointed out if you put the effort in and take the right supplements. That said an omnivorous diet provides easily accessible sources of all essential nutrients, including some that require careful planning on a vegan diet, like Vitamin B12, iron, Vitamin D3, creatine, and readily absorbed zinc. While vegan diets can be nutritionally adequate with planning and supplementation, omnivorism (is that a word?!
) offers a straightforward route to nutritional completeness for many.I don't believe there is a universally agreed ethical framework. A non-vegan might operate from a framework that prioritises human needs and choices, and they may view animals as resources (while potentially (hopefully) still valuing humane treatment), or accepts humans' place in the food chain. Rejecting the specific ethical premises of veganism doesn't automatically make one unethical; it means adhering to a different ethical view, surely you can accept that?
Ultimately, individuals should have the autonomy to choose the diet they feel best nourishes their body and aligns with their cultural background and personal convictions. (Provided it's within legal and sustainable bounds). I think the onus is on everyone to accept people's dietary choices, even if others disagree ethically (or not).
Rather than defending all forms of animal agriculture I agree that omnivores have a duty to follow more ethical omnivore diet. i.e., sourcing meat from high-welfare farms, reducing consumption or mass produced UPF meat sources.
Yes animals still die, but to have the audacity to taint cultural history and tradition because of morality is too much for me, you don't have to agree with it, but you have to accept that there's more to it than just "murder" and "stabbing" of an animal surely?
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My daughter and her partner have been vegan for about 9yrs but when pregnant she wanted eggs and fish. Since having the baby she's gone off fish but has kept on with the eggs. Her partner also now will eat an omelette occasionally.Somewhat of an overdramatisation - I get it... you find it horrible.
Using terms like "stabbed" to me is just deliberate emotional hyperbole designed to shock and provoke, rather than trying to engage in a reasoned discussion. You're painting a picture of malicious violence that misrepresents regulated slaughter processes, even if you disagree with the outcome. You also can't dismiss regulation and welfare efforts. There are MANY regulations in place (overseen by bodies like DEFRA and the FSA in the UK) designed to ensure animals are treated humanely within the system, including minimising pain and distress at slaughter. While I know vegans like yourself oppose the system itself, inflammatory language ignores any attempts at welfare within it. I accept that this isn't global, and there is a LOT of inhumane animal slaughter in the world, and I vehemently disagree with it, which is why where possible, I make sure I buy food from good reputable sources.
Attributing human-specific concepts like "murder" (not you but other vegans say it) and "stabbing" to the act of killing animals for food is excessive anthropomorphism. Whilst I agree animals are sentient, applying human specific legal and moral frameworks wholesale is problematic and shuts down discussion about the real ethical complexities, rather than prove the point you're trying to make.
Our omnivorous nature isn't just tradition; it's biology. Humans evolved the capacity to digest and derive nutrients from both plants and animals. This biological reality has shaped cultures and cuisines globally for millennia (in fact we know that humans (before classified as homosapiens) were eating meat over 2m years ago. I accept that this is an "appeal to nature" fallacy which doesn't automatically make it right but it's worth pointing out). While modern society offers choices, acknowledging this biological and historical context is important whether you agree with it or not.
Again you can be healthy as a vegan as you've pointed out if you put the effort in and take the right supplements. That said an omnivorous diet provides easily accessible sources of all essential nutrients, including some that require careful planning on a vegan diet, like Vitamin B12, iron, Vitamin D3, creatine, and readily absorbed zinc. While vegan diets can be nutritionally adequate with planning and supplementation, omnivorism (is that a word?!
I don't believe there is a universally agreed ethical framework. A non-vegan might operate from a framework that prioritises human needs and choices, and they may view animals as resources (while potentially (hopefully) still valuing humane treatment), or accepts humans' place in the food chain. Rejecting the specific ethical premises of veganism doesn't automatically make one unethical; it means adhering to a different ethical view, surely you can accept that?
Ultimately, individuals should have the autonomy to choose the diet they feel best nourishes their body and aligns with their cultural background and personal convictions. (Provided it's within legal and sustainable bounds). I think the onus is on everyone to accept people's dietary choices, even if others disagree ethically (or not).
Rather than defending all forms of animal agriculture I agree that omnivores have a duty to follow more ethical omnivore diet. i.e., sourcing meat from high-welfare farms, reducing consumption or mass produced UPF meat sources.
Yes animals still die, but to have the audacity to taint cultural history and tradition because of morality is too much for me, you don't have to agree with it, but you have to accept that there's more to it than just "murder" and "stabbing" of an animal surely?
Soldato
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i agree saying stabbed is totally wrong.
smashed in the face with a bolt pistol would be more accurate I don't like the thought of how animals are slaughtered.......... but i am a meat eater and don't believe in burying my head in the sand about it either. it isnt a job i would like to do but at the same time i have killed animals myself to eat.
smashed in the face with a bolt pistol would be more accurate
I don't like the thought of how animals are slaughtered.......... but i am a meat eater and don't believe in burying my head in the sand about it either. it isnt a job i would like to do but at the same time i have killed animals myself to eat.
Soldato
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not meaning to split hairs but that isnt being vegan
There was an episode of the royal family years ago which has popped into my head now. (about eating wafer thin ham
)
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I know but I should have said Veggan.not meaning to split hairs but that isnt being vegan
We just said she obviously needed that food substance while pregnant, she was the same with her first child but went completely back to being vegan.
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Soldato
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i just had to google that one...............
Man of Honour
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i agree saying stabbed is totally wrong.
smashed in the face with a bolt pistol would be more accurate
I've been hunting a few times, killed, gutted and prepared a handful of animals (pheasants, rabbits, and deer) do I love it? No. Do I hate it? I'd rather do other things. Could I do it to survive? Absolutely. I mean in parts of Europe deer and boar for example have no natural predators and rather than culling them unnecessarily, hunting is encouraged (for consumption). Not hunting/eating them negatively impacts on biodiversity so you're actually doing nature a favour!
Would I go out of my way to hunt and gut and butcher an animal? No, but it doesn't make feel ill either - I think it is important for people to visit an abattoir and/or understand the process that goes into preparing meat. This is why I'm quite fussy about where we buy meat from, the thought of mass produced chicken for example is quite shameful.
not meaning to split hairs but that isnt being vegan
There was an episode of the royal family years ago which has popped into my head now. (about eating wafer thin ham
Soldato
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that is my dads argument with my mum.
My dad is a wild fowler and i was bought up with hunting, and my mum always gave him grief for it - despite claiming we should pay more for free range meat from the butchers and not the cheap stuff.
My dads counter was, and still is! you dont get more free range than a duck which was shot whilst flying in the open!. growing up we had a hatchery in the garden rearing chickens for food (eggs and meat) as well as pheasants to release on the local farm. i wont lie it was amazing as a child not that i appreciated it at the time.
he was constantly dissapointed with me that i would rather stay home and play on my speccy than go shooting with him. in the end we compromised as we both enjoyed fishing (only snag is unless its battered at the chippy, i dont really like eating fish) (I was in the anglers mail for catching a 38lb 4oz cod once however, the largest caught off the british isles that year)
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The whole thing with our resident militant animal activist is exactly his attitude. His attitude that anyone who eats meat is an animal murderer and likes watching dolphins get clubbed to death before getting minced and put in tuna cans. And I absolutely love it. If he were a book, he'd be a Mills & Boon book on animal activism. The simple fact that he's simply become a running joke on these forums that literally not a single person takes seriously is just icing on the cake.
His incessant waaaaaaaaaaaaa every single time he posts is delicous. It's rare that I actively enjoy the misery of others, but I'll openly admit that the idea of him crying in to his vegan soup genuinely makes me smile.
His incessant waaaaaaaaaaaaa every single time he posts is delicous. It's rare that I actively enjoy the misery of others, but I'll openly admit that the idea of him crying in to his vegan soup genuinely makes me smile.
Soldato
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i havent read many mills and boon books i must admit but from my understanding of them, am not quite sure how that mashup would work
a love triangle about a man, a woman......... and a dolphin
Soldato
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Ita actually an understatement if anything, and il explain why with the life of a pig in the UK.
So the mothers (and fathers) are literally nonced around with by humans, she will give birth to maybe 8-10 babies, the runts or sick/dying ones will be smashed into the floor or hit with a blunt instrument (shot if theyre "lucky")
The ones that survive the hell holes theyre raised in, will have their tails chopped off, (and sometimes castrated, depends on the "farm") and teeth clipped. They will then spend the next 6 months inside only seeing daylight before theyre forced into a carbon dioxide gas chamber where they scream and smashed against the cages.... then theyre stabbed in the neck.
"Oh ok john, but what about free range" They share a similar fate, they can be blungeoned to death up to a certain size, and where do they up? Gas chambers yet again.
"There are many regulations...." it shows a massive lack of knowledge on your part, I actually don't blame you because you've been fed propaganda from the meat industries and the welfare organisations like the RSPCA/Red tractor for decades.
There was an FSA inspector watching these individuals be non stun slaughtered, with her clip board, ticking boxes, these regulations mean NOTHING to the victims.
(this place is still open despite obvious "welfare" laws being broken)
Go and inform yourself from these sources or find your own if you don't believe me.
The Mutilations (Permitted Procedures) (England) Regulations 2007
Section 5 (1) and (2) of the Animal Welfare Act 2006 (c.45) makes it an offence to carry out, or to cause or, in specified circumstances, permit another person to carry out, a prohibited procedure on a protected animal. A prohibited procedure is one which involves interference with the sensitive...
Animals in British Farming » Pigs - Eat Fair
An introduction into how animals are treated within the British Pork industry.
www.eatfair.org
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...Then theres the short hellish life of broiler chickens and egg laying birds, thats a whole other thread worth really.
And just to clarify, I dont think youre an "unethical" person, I dont believe I was before going vegan but now I know better, I reject the idea of all animal exploitation, its not a diet or a lifestlye its literally just a mindset/principle and certain actions follow from that.
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Soldato
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Obviously not vegan then are they.
Im against the exploitation of animals...... but not when pregnant or when I feel like it.
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