The Manchester United Club Thread **Sponsored by Comedy Central**

[fez]

I know the latter have only been in place for a year but the club as definitely deteriorated since they joined, how much of it is their fault remains to be seen but they are the ones making the decisions and they don't seem to be doing a good job so far. Let's see what happens but I'd say it's a false sense of confidence if we think they'll get it right. They've got more wrong than right so far.

Again, this is a really strange take. What would they have got right so far? You can't point at anything the club is doing right at the moment because doing things right for the club will take years of work before its actually measurable.

Genuine question, what could they possibly have done right so far? Not sacked Ashworth? That wouldn't be filed under "success" because he would still be in a job and planning transfers. Again, his worth would be measured in a year or twos time. Seems like he wasn't aligning with the rest of the management on the direction of the club ie. wanted Southgate at the club. For that alone the club should be praised. They should have thrown him in the river for suggesting that!

I can't really think of anything that INEOS could have done that people would have been praising that isn't entirely impossible. Perhaps signed Yamal on a free in January?

Fez knows

Trust me bro

 

[C Kent]

For all of the Southgate bants, he would have stabilised you as a club on the field, made you difficult to beat and let you plan a bit in advance for the next manager without ripping up everything and gambling on a guy that requires a completely rebuilt squad that his successor will not be able to use (unless he is also an advocate of 3-5-2). Hell have the club even bought into amorim and his style as you still play 4 at the back throughout at every other level?

 

[sigma]

Again, this is a really strange take. What would they have got right so far? You can't point at anything the club is doing right at the moment because doing things right for the club will take years of work before its actually measurable.

Genuine question, what could they possibly have done right so far? Not sacked Ashworth? That wouldn't be filed under "success" because he would still be in a job and planning transfers. Again, his worth would be measured in a year or twos time. Seems like he wasn't aligning with the rest of the management on the direction of the club ie. wanted Southgate at the club. For that alone the club should be praised. They should have thrown him in the river for suggesting that!

I can't really think of anything that INEOS could have done that people would have been praising that isn't entirely impossible. Perhaps signed Yamal on a free in January?



Trust me bro

They signed off the new players for a manager they weren't sure about and then subsequently sacked him. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but we'd be a lot better off if Amroim had those funds at his disposal. The whole EtH thing was a debacle too.

What was the interview process for the Ashworth job? Surely they asked what his philosophy/approach is?

Then there's all the charity stuff, Christmas parties, ex-players - just very bad optics. And in his interview The Rat clearly stated that they don't care about anything other than saving money - Gary asked him why they didn't do a raffle etc and he said 'because nobody thought of it'... telling.

The Dorgu signing doesn't look great so far, hopefully he'll improve but if we buy similar quality players then we're definitely not going anywhere fast.

They've put themselves in a bit of a corner with Amorim now - I guess they underestimated how poorly the players would adapt to his system, or how poor they are generally.

I don't think Jim talking about Casemiro etc was a nice thing either when he did his interview with his pal Gary.

Getting Rashford Sancho and Antony out have been good decisions.

After a year you can say "that wasn't a good decision", I mean you can say that after a month...

I know they need time and things don't change that quickly but that doesn't mean they won't make wrong decisions and that they haven't already made them.

Edit - where is the footballing structure/model/philosophy? It seems odd that only the first team play Amorim's formation?!

 

[sigma]

For all of the Southgate bants, he would have stabilised you as a club on the field, made you difficult to beat and let you plan a bit in advance for the next manager without ripping up everything and gambling on a guy that requires a completely rebuilt squad that his successor will not be able to use (unless he is also an advocate of 3-5-2). Hell have the club even bought into amorim and his style as you still play 4 at the back throughout at every other level?

What makes you say that? He relegated Middlesbrough

His league record is rubbish

 

[C Kent]

What makes you say that? He relegated Middlesbrough

His league record is rubbish

The squad he would have had at his disposal, I know amorim has lowered expectations massively, but let's be honest its not a bottom 5 bunch of players. You'd probably be around 10th or so, but stability is what you need on the pitch rather than this yo-yo **** youve see on the pitch for the last 8 months or so. Then in a few seasons you could have gone for some like mckenna who you were keen on in the summer. I get the stigma around Southgate but i think he would have been a better 'short-term' appointment than a guy that was whoring himself around Europe this time last year (and still wasn't linked with the man utd job I might add)

 

[Calpol]

For all of the Southgate bants, he would have stabilised you as a club on the field, made you difficult to beat and let you plan a bit in advance for the next manager without ripping up everything and gambling on a guy that requires a completely rebuilt squad that his successor will not be able to use (unless he is also an advocate of 3-5-2). Hell have the club even bought into amorim and his style as you still play 4 at the back throughout at every other level?

I can just about cope with being Banter FC under Amorim. Southgate - nah. It would be ten times the bants.
Ultimately he's failed at everything he did in the game. nice bloke but not at all what any (so called ) big club needs.

 

[sigma]

The squad he would have had at his disposal, I know amorim has lowered expectations massively, but let's be honest its not a bottom 5 bunch of players. You'd probably be around 10th or so, but stability is what you need on the pitch rather than this yo-yo **** youve see on the pitch for the last 8 months or so. Then in a few seasons you could have gone for some like mckenna who you were keen on in the summer. I get the stigma around Southgate but i think he would have been a better 'short-term' appointment than a guy that was whoring himself around Europe this time last year (and still wasn't linked with the man utd job I might add)

There's no way they wanted to go for that back then. Project 150 is the short-term objective, win the EPL and the WSL before 2028...

 

[sigma]

I can just about cope with being Banter FC under Amorim. Southgate - nah. It would be ten times the bants.
Ultimately he's failed at everything he did in the game. nice bloke but not at all what any (so called ) big club needs.

Something we can all agree on. Unless you need fez to advise you on this too

 

[sigma]

The squad he would have had at his disposal, I know amorim has lowered expectations massively, but let's be honest its not a bottom 5 bunch of players.

The players were rubbish under EtH as well but most people were convinced that he was the problem

 

[fez]

They signed off the new players for a manager they weren't sure about and then subsequently sacked him. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but we'd be a lot better off if Amroim had those funds at his disposal. The whole EtH thing was a debacle too.

So what should they have done when they had literally just got their feet in the door? The players we signed last summer haven't been bad signings IMO either. Should they just have come in and stopped all signings? And yes, the EtH thing wasn't well handled but a lot of fans, myself included weren't sure about sacking EtH because although peoples memories are short, we had absolutely insane injury issues last season. He won the FA Cup despite that. In hindsight we should have sacked him but I don't believe its the clear choice every time within the context of the season.

What was the interview process for the Ashworth job? Surely they asked what his philosophy/approach is?

I'm sure they did. I doubt his answer was "sack Ten Hag and sign Southgate, bish bash bosh". You can hire people who turn out not to be what you want or expect. Part of running a business well is identifying that as early as possible and acting on it. They did that. They likely should have caught this before hiring him but they didn't. They were decisive when they realised.

Then there's all the charity stuff, Christmas parties, ex-players - just very bad optics. And in his interview The Rat clearly stated that they don't care about anything other than saving money - Gary asked him why they didn't do a raffle etc and he said 'because nobody thought of it'... telling.

As I said, no debating they have made some questionable decisions. These are not, in the grand scheme of running a successful football club even remotely important though.

The Dorgu signing doesn't look great so far, hopefully he'll improve but if we buy similar quality players then we're definitely not going anywhere fast.

Nope, I agree.

My point is that all the things you can point at or argue are mistakes are not the big ticket items. Recruitment, setting standards on the football field, moving players on at the right time, rewarding success not failure, hiring the right managers. These are the things that matter and yet people are throwing their toys out of the pram declaring that INEOS are doing an awful job despite none of these things having had enough time for us to draw any conclusions.

 

[C Kent]

The players were rubbish under EtH as well but most people were convinced that he was the problem

well, that's because a lot of you were under the impression you were still a top 4 side, probably due to a few top 3 finishes when other clubs massively under performed

 

[adam cool dude]

The players were rubbish under EtH as well but most people were convinced that he was the problem

ETH main downfall was zero support. He isn't a manager he is a coach.

ETH was better than Amorim imo. I cannot wait to see what ETH does at the next club he manages at. I still think it was a mistake to sack him and should have left him till the end of the season and then gone in for Amorim if a) the results didn't improve or b) he turned it around and we started winning.

It would have been the perfect timing and the new ownership wouldn't have egg on their face like they do now.

 

[Thekwango]

The players were rubbish under EtH as well but most people were convinced that he was the problem

And now already some people are saying Amorim is the problem….. folk will catch on soon enough to the reality.

 

[BaZ87]

My point is that all the things you can point at or argue are mistakes are not the big ticket items.

Making a mess of the director of football appointment and managerial position are pretty big things. In fact you're never going to have a successful club if you don't get those things right and Jim didn't just get them wrong, he ****ed them up spectacularly.

 

[adam cool dude]

Making a mess of the director of football appointment and managerial position are pretty big things. In fact you're never going to have a successful club if you don't get those things right and Jim didn't just get them wrong, he ****ed them up spectacularly.

Maybe it is what we need. Relegation to the Championship so the Glazers bugger off then we get bought out by P-Diddy and Jay-Z to do a Wrexham Pt2.

 

[Thekwango]

well, that's because a lot of you were under the impression you were still a top 4 side, probably due to a few top 3 finishes when other clubs massively under performed

That’s very true. There’s still a lot of our supporters think we should be top 4, just because we’re Man Utd. The club as a whole is gash, the squad is gash. Could/should the results under Amorim be better, probably. Would a higher league position mean we are any less gash, absolutely not.
Until the root cause of the issues at the club are sorted there ain’t no one coming in to manage this lot to any consistent level of success.

 

[Robbo]

The Ashworth thing was a major balls-up, however you look at it. That said, I do think they need to be given a fair chance. It's still relatively early days. So far it's not been great, but it can be turned around.

For all the huge amounts of noise and drama, I think we're 4 good signings away from being much further up the table. Assuming they're the right ones, of course...

 

[BaZ87]

For all the huge amounts of noise and drama, I think we're 4 good signings away from being much further up the table. Assuming they're the right ones, of course...

You could balls up this summer and should still easily finish higher in the League, you are 16th after all. As bad as this Utd squad are, they're not 16th bad. They should be in the top half and pushing for European spots.

I'd be intrigued to know what the expectations on Amorim & Utd are for next season. 18 months ago being 6th-8th would have been seen as a disaster in the eyes of pretty much every Utd fan but I get the impression that will be seen as a successful season next season. Assuming Jim doesn't get an itchy trigger finger, being so bad this season might work in Amorim's favour in the short to mid term.

 

[Robbo]

You could balls up this summer and should still easily finish higher in the League, you are 16th after all. As bad as this Utd squad are, they're not 16th bad. They should be in the top half and pushing for European spots.

I'd be intrigued to know what the expectations on Amorim & Utd are for next season. 18 months ago being 6th-8th would have been seen as a disaster in the eyes of pretty much every Utd fan but I get the impression that will be seen as a successful season next season. Assuming Jim doesn't get an itchy trigger finger, being so bad this season might work in Amorim's favour in the short to mid term.

It sounds like the target is 6th, which is reasonable considering our current position. It'll be tough though if we're playing in the Champions League as well.

I think they'll take stock of things after the Europa League final. Regardless of league position, if Amorim has managed to get us into the Champions League, he'll have exceeded expectations...!

 

[BaZ87]

It sounds like the target is 6th, which is reasonable considering our current position. It'll be tough though if we're playing in the Champions League as well.

I think they'll take stock of things after the Europa League final. Regardless of league position, if Amorim has managed to get us into the Champions League, he'll have exceeded expectations...!

Winning the Europa is hugely important for Utd because of the prize of CL football but in the context of this season it will be nothing more than a sticking plaster over what has been a disastrous season.

While Utd should be doing far better than they have this season, they've never been further away from the top as they are now and I suspect we're going to be hearing things like 'trust the process' a lot over the next couple of years because it's not going to be a quick fix. And there's no guarantee that the process will work either.