Unfit/ unsafe drivers

[Dis86]

And you have evidence of this instead of coming across as bit sexist and ageist?
It isn't granted that younger drivers take more risks it is a fact that a disproportionately high percentage of younger drivers are killed or seriously injured as a result of their own behaviour.
This isn't a UK trait either yet what 'appears' to make the news is when one older drivers are involved.

Actually the stats exist...

"the most common contributory factor allocated to vehicles driven by an older car driver involved in fatal or serious collisions (FSC) was ‘driver failed to look properly’ followed by ‘driver failed to judge another person’s path or speed’"

Overall, in 2023, around a quarter of all car drivers killed were older drivers, with 11% of all casualties in car collisions being in collisions involving older drivers.

Between 2004 and 2023:

Killed or seriously injured (KSI) casualties from a collision involving at least one older car driver increased from 3,082 to 3,451, a rise of 12%

KSI casualties in collisions involving other aged car drivers decreased from 37,023 to 20,397, a fall of 45%

Everyone else is getting better. Older drivers are getting worse.

 

[m4rmite]

I did a 9 hours drive yesterday and it is crazy that it is even legal. Even more crazy that I can extend it to 10 hours twice a week. Even more crazy that big fat Boris when he was PM slacked it off during COVID to allow you to do more 10 hour drives during the week.

It is not often I do a 9-10 hour drive but when you do your brain is fried by the time you get home and sit and eat your dinner. I would compare it to being drunk. Yet 100% legal.

Non stop?
Don't professional drivers have to take a break after 4.5 hours?

 

[cuke2u]

Actually the stats exist...

"the most common contributory factor allocated to vehicles driven by an older car driver involved in fatal or serious collisions (FSC) was ‘driver failed to look properly’ followed by ‘driver failed to judge another person’s path or speed’"

Overall, in 2023, around a quarter of all car drivers killed were older drivers, with 11% of all casualties in car collisions being in collisions involving older drivers.

Between 2004 and 2023:

Killed or seriously injured (KSI) casualties from a collision involving at least one older car driver increased from 3,082 to 3,451, a rise of 12%

KSI casualties in collisions involving other aged car drivers decreased from 37,023 to 20,397, a fall of 45%

Everyone else is getting better. Older drivers are getting worse.

I know the actual stats thank you as I look them up before posting.
It is a fact that the numbers of elderly people in the uk has increased drastically, thus those driving has also increased, and proportionality the numbers involved in any rtc will also increase.
This is a fact. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...0QFnoECHQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1hSuw-0SF15SklSYMwK5TB Three years old but still true today.
However with the 17-25 year old drivers it isn't in proportional at all and this is a greater problem. There is a bigger debate about this and for a while https://roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/drive-fast-die-young/
Government casualty statistics show young male car drivers are four times as likely to be killed or seriously injured compared with all older drivers.
My statement and prophecy in post #5 is correct.
Time for my nap now
.

 

[d_brennen]

I did a 9 hours drive yesterday and it is crazy that it is even legal. Even more crazy that I can extend it to 10 hours twice a week. Even more crazy that big fat Boris when he was PM slacked it off during COVID to allow you to do more 10 hour drives during the week.

It is not often I do a 9-10 hour drive but when you do your brain is fried by the time you get home and sit and eat your dinner. I would compare it to being drunk. Yet 100% legal.

I've done Stirling to Kent, which was 9 hours or so. Where you going? :0

 

[Diddums]

I've done Stirling to Kent, which was 9 hours or so. Where you going? :0

He was only going down his local pub.

 

[Dis86]

It is a fact that the numbers of elderly people in the uk has increased drastically, thus those driving has also increased, and proportionality the numbers involved in any rtc will also increase.

Err...I don't think you know what proportionality means.

From your own roadsafetyGB link

"In brief, the report that while the number of casualties sustained by older road users have been decreasing, they have not reduced at as fast a rate as seen by other age groups, especially when taking into account the increasing size of the population aged over 70"

That's from a paper in 2014, things have only gotten worse since then. It directly contradicts your point as does my previous quotation above. Like I said, young driver accidents can largely be explained by inexperience. Older drivers' don't have that excuse and should know better.

 

[Iamzod]

Had a front row seat to a near fatality on Weds, which involved an elderly driver in a small fiesta.

I was behind them when they had stopped in the road, indicating and waiting to turn right. There was an oncoming fastrac (big tractor) towing a silage tank going at a rate of knots, which I assumed he was waiting for....but no, after waiting long enough to let the tractor be right on top of us he slowly pulled off and turned right in front of him

The look on the tractor drivers face! He stomped on the brakes so hard it looked like he was going to go through the windscreen - there was no chance of stopping with that weight on tow. How the hell he missed him I don't know, but he would have steamrollered over that fiesta if he hadn't.

This worries me with an extended family member of mine, they just seem to lack awareness. I've had several instances outside my house where they have pulled out after being here & nearly been T-Boned.

It doesn't help that they can't turn their head more than a few degrees so blind spots I imagine are a guessing game.

 

[Dis86]

Had a front row seat to a near fatality on Weds, which involved an elderly driver in a small fiesta.

I was behind them when they had stopped in the road, indicating and waiting to turn right. There was an oncoming fastrac (big tractor) towing a silage tank going at a rate of knots, which I assumed he was waiting for....but no, after waiting long enough to let the tractor be right on top of us he slowly pulled off and turned right in front of him

The look on the tractor drivers face! He stomped on the brakes so hard it looked like he was going to go through the windscreen - there was no chance of stopping with that weight on tow. How the hell he missed him I don't know, but he would have steamrollered over that fiesta if he hadn't.

Ties in with the links I've posted. Terrible judgement of speed and distance.

I've had 3 crashes, all caused by elderly drivers. The first T-boned me at a junction. The second pulled out from the side of the road in to me. The third crashed in to the side of my parked car.

from talking to them afterwards at least two of them were simply not fit to be driving.

 

[Rroff]

And the heroes who brag they do 8-10 hour stints cruising at 80+ whilst being fully alert

not aimed at you btw.

Everyone is different in this respect - it just doesn't hit me personally until I stop and relax then the fatigue catches up. I think partly I'm just conditioned to it from a very young age as we did regular long car journeys growing up.

Ties in with the links I've posted. Terrible judgement of speed and distance.

I've had 3 crashes, both all caused by elderly drivers. The first T-boned me at a junction. The second pulled out from the side of the road in to me. The third crashed in to the side of my parked car.

from talking to them afterwards at least two of them were simply not fit to be driving.

I have to drive through a town which is a popular retirement destination to on my way to work - I've twice had elderly drivers come head on with me on the wrong side of the road who've had to give up their licenses and shouldn't have been driving for some years (both incidents would have been a fatal accident any other time) and many times got behind older drivers who clearly shouldn't be on the road, mercifully not had an incident yet. The local Facebook group semi-regularly has posts about them hitting parked cars, etc.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-surrenders-licence-terrifying-motorists.html almost amusing with all the arrows but any other time that would have ended badly.

 

[adam cool dude]

Non stop?
Don't professional drivers have to take a break after 4.5 hours?

Yes but a 45 minute break is neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things. It is not enough of a rest period imo but those are the rules to keep yourself legal.

I can assume there are plenty of professions that do not use tachos that are even worse as they have to abide to nothing.

I've done Stirling to Kent, which was 9 hours or so. Where you going? :0

Lincolnshire to Widnes then down to Market Drayton then back up to Crewe and all the way back to Lincolnshire.

 

[cuke2u]

Coming up with ones own driving experiences isn't really objective and cannot be used as an argument that one size fits all. From my own perspective I've witnessed shocking driving from all age groups but mostly examples are from younger individuals. Some, it seems, 'conveniently forget those age groups and only 'remember' when it it is an older driver.

But bad driving is just that and it can be caused by all age groups but on the whole I just find younger people have terrible habits on the road and clearly have never read the highway code or, in some cases, not seemingly have any ability to be able to pass their driving test and this needs to be tightened up. Hopefully the government will eventually start to take onboard that graduated driving licences would end saving lives and also relieve the pain and stress on relatives, friends, when lives of young people(s) are taken away by their own fault.

 

[Werewolf]

The bbc article is about eye tests, not driving retests so some are rather jumping the gun. Plus the article refers to someone who knew they had an eye condition that they should have reported.
It is this self reporting of a driving impairment that is the issue.

I was under the impression the law changed a few years ago so that medical professionals had to report if they thought someone was unsafe to drive.

I know my dad's consultant was apparently quite cautiously approaching the question of if my dad drove about 10 years ago, and seemed relieved when my dad casually mentioned he'd given up driving something like 5 years earlier due to his eyes.

Personally I think everyone should be required to provide proof of an eye test when they renew their licence for any reason (only exception being if they've moved and they've provided proof in say the last 3 years), as it is utterly irresponsible for people to not get their eyes tested on a regular basis if they are driving*.
I reported a health condition to the DVLA about 20 years ago, purely because I wanted to be clear with them that I had it in case there ever was a query (it wasn't one they explicitly ask about but borderline for a group of conditions).


One of our neighbours was an elderly gent who kept driving (going back about 20 years now), long past the point his GP was advising him to stop, and IIRC he had multiple small incidents involving things like fence posts and pots in his own driveway before he gave up, he would be driving around town at about 15mph on 30-40 roads because he couldn't see/couldn't react fast enough.
I'm not sure if he gave up driving in the end because he couldn't get in the car, or because his children/grandchildren finally managed to persuade him to stop, I know my dad brought it up with him a couple of times and was told "I'm fine, i know what i'm doing and i'm only driving around town" or similar.


*And given how fast some eye conditions can occur, i find it slightly mind boggling that people don't get their eyes tested every 2-3 years as standard, but then I've spent nearly 30 years taking my dad to and from the eye clinic at the hospital so i'm quite aware of what can go wrong.

 

[Rroff]

Coming up with ones own driving experiences isn't really objective and cannot be used as an argument that one size fits all. From my own perspective I've witnessed shocking driving from all age groups but mostly examples are from younger individuals. Some, it seems, 'conveniently forget those age groups and only 'remember' when it it is an older driver.

But bad driving is just that and it can be caused by all age groups but on the whole I just find younger people have terrible habits on the road and clearly have never read the highway code or, in some cases, not seemingly have any ability to be able to pass their driving test and this needs to be tightened up. Hopefully the government will eventually start to take onboard that graduated driving licences would end saving lives and also relieve the pain and stress on relatives, friends, when lives of young people(s) are taken away by their own fault.

Yeah last week for example got up behind a Fiat 500 with 2 girls probably 20 at most in it, driver's attention was on just about anything but the road and could see both of them waving mobile phones around, speeding up and slowing down randomly, drifting towards the curb, late reactions, etc.

But it is far more often I see older drivers who do things like driving the wrong way down a road, swerve at other traffic or don't even see a pedestrian or cyclist at all, etc. (though as above I live in an area with a high retirement population).

 

[RedMogg]

When I was an optometrist, I lost count of the amount of elderly patients with glasses 20 years out of date, who would take their updated prescriptions (without ordering new specs that meant they'd be able to actually see) and drive home.

We only had a legal obligation to report the driver to the DVLA if we were certain they'd continue driving without adequate eyewear (public protection) - otherwise the onus was on the patient to report themselves (and who'd do that?).

The same when administering eye drops that dilate the pupils - we'd make it crystal clear they were not to drive themselves, but we'd be told "Sure, I'll just wait outside for my Wife to pick me up", then watch as they get into the car and do exactly what we'd warned not to. The first few times I reported to the police, was met with the Alan Partridge Shrug.gif...

I absolutely agree there should be a refresher test at 60-70, and stronger reporting/enforcement systems to report drivers who blatantly refuse to update their specs to the correct prescription.

If I issued the wrong prescription to a driver, who then caused an accident, I'd likely be liable...

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Interesting that the OP has focused on the elderly, yet I don’t remember ever having an issue with one.

Yet on my bicycle, I’ve had:
- business dressed chap in an Audi A4 overtake me so close that he clipped me with his door mirror
- middle aged chap in his Micro who pulled out in front of me. I had so little time to brake that I left a dent in his front wing with my bike
- a lovely chap in his white van who I’m pretty sure was on his phone, who pulled out of a side road whilst I was merrily on the main road and hit me hard enough to bent the crank arm on my bike

Personally, I have far more issues with the morons who think the laws are optional.

 

[Dis86]

Interesting that the OP has focused on the elderly, yet I don’t remember ever having an issue with one.

Yet on my bicycle, I’ve had:
- business dressed chap in an Audi A4 overtake me so close that he clipped me with his door mirror
- middle aged chap in his Micro who pulled out in front of me. I had so little time to brake that I left a dent in his front wing with my bike
- a lovely chap in his white van who I’m pretty sure was on his phone, who pulled out of a side road whilst I was merrily on the main road and hit me hard enough to bent the crank arm on my bike

Personally, I have far more issues with the morons who think the laws are optional.

But these elderly drivers think the law is optional. They're no longer medically fit to drive.

 

[jpaul]

inattentiveness/careless drivers he describes have the same view of the law -
pretty sure I'd be hospitalised if a driver bent a crank, though - always take the centre of the carriageway if you are coming to a side road with someone who might emerge.

If I issued the wrong prescription to a driver, who then caused an accident, I'd likely be liable...

At least specsavers cowboys seem unable to generate an accurate prescription and then fit varifocal glasses for my father having to return several times within 6months;
My suspicion is that varifocals with narrow corridors maybe mis-prescribed for elderly folks who have had fixed lenses most of their lives,
and indeed a fixed lense may be better as long as they can also see the instrument panel adequately.

 

[Diddums]

I seem to be living in the UK's retirement county, Surrey. I struggle to get my head around some of the things I see. Pulling out of junctions and roundabouts being my favourite, you can stand there for absolute ages waiting for them to make sure they have a clear line of sight to France before pulling out.

Parking? Meh, if it fits, it sits. Zero ***** given. Bumping doors in car parks? All part of being old, no dramas m8.

Honestly I think a lot of them use the ''old" card far too much. At first I didn't mind it as I genuinely thought most of them were just ditzy old biddies, but the longer I live here, the more I realize that they just don't give a toss and will happily pretend that they don't see you. I also think that in a lot cases of they genuinely can't see further than 10ft in front of them.

I don't mind it most of the time, but on the odd occasion I'm in a hurry, it's absolutely infuriating. I've made a few dodgy passes so I'm not stuck behind them at 20mph in a 40 and they just look at me like I've just eradicated half of society.

 

[BUDFORCE]

Ties in with the links I've posted. Terrible judgement of speed and distance.

I've had 3 crashes, all caused by elderly drivers. The first T-boned me at a junction. The second pulled out from the side of the road in to me. The third crashed in to the side of my parked car.

from talking to them afterwards at least two of them were simply not fit to be driving.

I've fortunately not had a car accident.

But I did get knocked off a pushbike on a roundabout, I had right of way coming from the right and the old biddy just drove straight into me.

Fortunately I was ok, the bike wasn't though. She didn't have a clue mate, and although she stopped, I'm not sure she even realised what she had done.

 

[Dis86]

I've fortunately not had a car accident.

But I did get knocked off a pushbike on a roundabout, I had right of way coming from the right and the old biddy just drove straight into me.

Fortunately I was ok, the bike wasn't though. She didn't have a clue mate, and although she stopped, I'm not sure she even realised what she had done.

I've, funnily enough, had the same. Sideswiped me, I fell in to a bush which gave me a nice soft landing. I managed to get back on and catch up with her at a junction. Despite hammering on the side of her car she had absolutely no clue and it was only when a bus intentionally blocked her path that she stopped.