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I'm more concerned about the system than the manager. How many top managers use it, how many teams have won consistently (leagues and trophies) playing it? Does it suit the league? Is it the future? Is it good enough in the present?

If it will bring success then great, if not then he needs to go.

What's the club's football model? What's the strategy? What's the plan? Apart from hot air and a new stadium.
 
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Converge said:
I agree, but think we will lose Europa. It would be just our luck after going unbeaten to lose to Spurs. I’m already nervous about it and the ensuing media coverage! :cry:
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It's a 50:50 game and you never know what United will turn up but I just feel that we have things in our favour.
- this team knows how to win finals. We have more experience with Maguire, Casemiro, Bruno. How many Tottenham players have played in a really big game?
- Spurs are missing their two best players this season in Maddison and Kula. Johnson has also had a good season but he's young and inexperienced.
- of the two potential game winners, Son is out of form most of the season. Bruno is our talisman and seldom doesn't turn up.
- lads it's Tottenham
- Lyon match sort of said it's our year - we were gone and somehow found a way back (without Amad - who has been our best attacker)
- we've played in the stadium already this season which has to be a small advantage

The worst thing would be a loss on pens
sigma said:
I'm more concerned about the system than the manager. How many top managers use it, how many teams have won consistently (leagues and trophies) playing it? Does it suit the league? Is it the future? Is it good enough in the present?

If it will bring success then great, if not then he needs to go.

What's the club's football model? What's the strategy? What's the plan? Apart from hot air and a new stadium.
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Don't get too hung up on the "system". Amorim has a framework but a lot of flex within it. What he want's is players that will run and fight like dogs as a start point. His game method is actually more flexible than ten Hags which really needed very progressive and quick centre backs. Three at the back allows you to use MAguire or De Ligt without it neutering the whole team. Three or four signings of the right profile will set us up better. We concede a lot less chances than under ten Hag. Unfortunately we have no decent forwards.

The strategy is clear -It's Amorims attacking style designed to put us in contention to win the league in 2028. Not saying it's easy but it's clear what the intention is.
 
Converge said:
It’s a miracle we even got to the final. I don’t see why this argument stands. He should be given a proper stab at it with a proper transfer window in the summer. If we win Europa, even better.

What is firing him and going with yet another manager going to achieve? It’s the players and the environment.

Patience is needed. You even said so yourself that we’ve all been round this discussion a million times already.
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I actually think some of the criticism is being moderated because of our Europa League progress. If you disregard that, we can all see he's done really quite poorly - but of course I do agree it's not his fault and I'd rather he stuck to his principles. You can put these players in any formation you like, they'll still mess things up.

There isn't an obvious manager I'd prefer, but he's got to hit the ground running next season. He won't get much leeway if we carry on losing. I'm happy for us to have a pretty average season next season, as long as there's some clear progress. I've no confidence in recruitment though!

I will be surprised if we don't beat Spurs, I'd give us a chance against the majority of sides in a one-off cup final and Spurs are really nothing special. Huge pressure on them as the manager is 100% sacked if they lose and they've basically never won anything of note in modern football.
 
Trying to save what reputation he has left. His system is crap and doesn't work in the Prem against Prem sides.
 
I was surprised with Amorim that he didn't even appear to get the new manager bounce out of these players when he joined. The team just continued to sink down the order. I thought they'd at least rally for a few months before the inevitable backslide.
 
sigma said:
I'm more concerned about the system than the manager. How many top managers use it, how many teams have won consistently (leagues and trophies) playing it? Does it suit the league? Is it the future? Is it good enough in the present?
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Not saying Palace are a top team but they play the same formation and seem to have done reasonably well, certainly punching above their weight and won a trophy
 
Bear said:
Not saying Palace are a top team but they play the same formation and seem to have done reasonably well, certainly punching above their weight and won a trophy
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Is finishing 12th reasonably well as far as Manchester United is concerned? I say this not because I think United deserve it due to birth right.

I suppose it's better than 16th?

Remember the ambition (lol) is to win the league before '28.
 
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Fubsy said:
Trying to save what reputation he has left. His system is crap and doesn't work in the Prem against Prem sides.
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I don't think thats the case. I think that Pep wouldn't do any better with this set of players trying to play his style of football either. Same for Klopp/Slot. Amorims system needs runners. It needs players who will break through the opposition lines. We have almost none of those players. His system isn't crap, he just doesn't have any of the personnel required for it. This has been a problem for years at United. As soon as the opposition offer up any resistance we stop, check our runs and pass backwards and all momentum is gone. We aren't a possession based team who probe for gaps and have players with a high level of technique who can find gaps and play cute 1-2s.

A different manager would be getting far more from these players but ultimately the ceiling of this set of players is probably top 6-8.

The high ups at United certainly have a tricky decision to make now. £100m less to spend and a manager who needs more than a few players to come in. The safe option is to get rid of him and bring in a conventional 4 at the back manager and build on top of the current squad. The much more risky option is to back Amorim and hope that we aren't sacking him come Christmas and resetting again.
 
sigma said:
Is finishing 12th reasonably well as far as Manchester United is concerned? I say this not because I think United deserve it due to birth right.

I suppose it's better than 16th?

Remember the ambition (lol) is to win the league before '28.
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I think mid table and an FA cup, most Utd fans would have been happy with that this season
 
Very curious what funds united will have to get the players Amorim needs to excite his system/style of play. Sancho, Rashford and Antony all returning?

I think they could defo raise funds from all 3 plus Garnacho. There must be some legroom there to improve his squad.
 
sigma said:
Is finishing 12th reasonably well as far as Manchester United is concerned? I say this not because I think United deserve it due to birth right.

I suppose it's better than 16th?

Remember the ambition (lol) is to win the league before '28.
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Palace have one of the cheapest assembled teams in the league. Man Utd have the most expensive.

So yes, Palace are doing reasonably well.
 
Bear said:
I think mid table and an FA cup, most Utd fans would have been happy with that this season
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No fans of big clubs are ever happy with their results in general. We had this discussion with Arsenal fans over the past few years. It goes something along the lines of.

Start of the season: "we would be happy with top 4"
Final third of season: "we're top of the league"
End of the season: "Well, we would have been happy with 2nd if you asked us at the start of the season".

Expectations change depending on where you are. If you are sitting mid table and win a domestic cup as a side like United you think that you should have got top 6. If you get top 6 you think you should have got top 4 etc.
 
Bear said:
Not saying Palace are a top team but they play the same formation and seem to have done reasonably well, certainly punching above their weight and won a trophy
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They’ve got better players though. Their players are on the up. United are on the down or not good enough.

Palace will struggle to hold onto their players.

United will struggle to get rid of their players.

Huge difference.
 
JamesH85 said:
Very curious what funds united will have to get the players Amorim needs to excite his system/style of play. Sancho, Rashford and Antony all returning?

I think they could defo raise funds from all 3 plus Garnacho. There must be some legroom there to improve his squad.
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Its all up in the air. Antony won't be hard to sell. Rashford and Sancho will though. Rashford is still a legend in his own mind and thinks there will be big clubs in for him and willing to pay him big money. There won't be. Sancho will likely be happy enough just collecting his silly wages and doing nothing. Can't see Chelsea buying him.

Their wages make them almost unsaleable unless United are willing to let them go for a pittance.

Then again, we might sack Amorim, Rashford and Sancho come back under the new manager, do OK for 6 months and then sack it off again behaviourally and we are in exactly the same place a year from now.
 
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