Chinese cars

I was tempted to post about some of our recent hire vehicles at work, albeit mostly stuff like Maxus vans, which have been Chinese brands where even like 24 plate vehicles have peeling grills and interior and exterior trim surfaces degrading like usually happens after 10+ years, along with the electrical systems which aren't quite there etc. - but when Googling it I found a load of posts of vehicles like the VW ID Buzz having the exact same issues :s
 
Rroff said:
I was tempted to post about some of our recent hire vehicles at work, albeit mostly stuff like Maxus vans, which have been Chinese brands where even like 24 plate vehicles have peeling grills and interior and exterior trim surfaces degrading like usually happens after 10+ years, along with the electrical systems which aren't quite there etc. - but when Googling it I found a load of posts of vehicles like the VW ID Buzz having the exact same issues :s
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You should, the good the bad and the ugly.
 
Mysterae_ said:
You should, the good the bad and the ugly.
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Context was quality vs non-Chinese brands, one of my colleagues goes on and on about them being Temu ****, but when Googling what I've seen to see how much it might reflect people's wider experience with these vehicles I found that it isn't uncommon on a lot of brands of late including and/or especially VW.

It is quite concerning though - I don't expect to see the grill peeling after less than a year of use and that isn't just one vehicle.
 
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Rroff said:
Context was quality vs non-Chinese brands, one of my colleagues goes on and on about them being Temu ****, but when Googling what I've seen to see how much it might reflect people's wider experience with these vehicles I found that it isn't uncommon on a lot of brands of late including and/or especially VW.

It is quite concerning though - I don't expect to see the grill peeling after less than a year of use and that isn't just one vehicle.
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I see what you mean. It'll be interesting to see how the Chinese brands fair in say five years with regards to wear.
 
I've had the Jaecoo about a month now, not a car i'd buy myself - work took my van and gave me the Jaecoo and allowed me to use it privately too for a really low price.. it's not bad, drives ok, bags and bags of tech, does about 50 odd miles on a full charge but the petrol engine is a bit thirsty but then I suppose it is about 2.2 tonne so to be expected I suppose. Overall I'd probably give it a 6/10.
 
SkyTerran said:
There is a huge anti-EV propaganda campaign funded by the oil and gas industry. A lot of people have been brainwashed to hate electric cars.

My EV has 72kWh battery, it costs 5 quid to charge it 100% on 7p night tariff. It does 250 miles with that amount of power. To get the same range on a similar size ICE I'll have to pay at least 30 quid.

The annual service costs 80 quid, an ICE service is 200 quid at least.

The electric motor has far fewer parts and works at lower temperatures - which means it is a lot more durable and doesn't need a ton of expensive repairs after say 80K or 100K miles.

EVs catch fire 20 times less often that ICEs.

"older Tesla's that are now undriveable because of battery degradation" - typical propaganda funded by big oil.
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Not really, this is just coming from someone who has used and been passenger to a variety of electric vehicles. Main thing for me is the sound and feel which just isnt there.

Its not even just about the range really, but its just something that still lacks behind. Certain parts of the country its also much harder to find charging spots nearby vs petrol stations.

The battery deg is a very real issue, its only been seen on the older cars so far but as most electrics are still new its not really much of a thing. In the next few years you will see it pop up being more of a issue as it becomes more widely adopted
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
@Capitano There is a certain irony that you have picked on old Tesla’s as not beeing seen on the roads as their battery has likely gone kaput.

Pretty much every silly high milage EV on the roads is an old Tesla Model S. There are well documented examples of old Tesla’s doing 200-600k miles. To add further irony, they are the only vehicle which had unlimited milage warranty on its battery which lasted for 8 years.

Have you considered the reason why you don’t see many about is because they don’t make very many? The first mass market Tesla (Model 3) to land in the U.K. wasn’t until 2019 and hit high volumes in 2020.

As for synthetic fuel, it’s never going to be cheaper than what you are currently using. It also doesn’t deal with the pollution issue. It’s basically a non-starter for a mass market solution and will only ever be used in a relatively small number of niche/classic cars.

As for EVs not satisfying petrolheads, I don’t disagree but this group of people make up a tiny fraction of people who buy cars. Probably a fraction of a %. You are simply going to have to get over it or buy something silly like a Hyundai Ionic 5 N.
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Tesla's are the only real "old" electrics you can even compare with in all fairness, vast majority of newer electrics are all from the last couple of years. But I do have a couple friends with electrics bought around 2020-2022 that are already noticing worse mileage and performance vs when they first bought it - similar to our smartphones with batteries gradually degrading and losing capacity.

you are probably right about the synthetic fuel, BUT if it does become a viable option to mass produce and supply then it'll become cheaper - even if it doesnt, the competition will likely force current petrol to become cheaper.

This is also true that its probably a small %, but electrics are still relatively very new and there are probably a lot of long term issues that haven't even been identified yet. I dont even completely hate the idea of electrics in all fairness, it just cant be ALL that I drive. I would want a petrol car there for fun and weekend trips I take
 
The cost of synthetics is the energy to make them. That doesnt get cheaper with volume and you are still sticking pollution in the local air.

No much fun about an S6 to be honest, boat anchor of over the nose isnt the vibe most want,

EDIT: What the hell has this got to do with Chinese cars.
 
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Capitano said:
Tesla's are the only real "old" electrics you can even compare with in all fairness, vast majority of newer electrics are all from the last couple of years. But I do have a couple friends with electrics bought around 2020-2022 that are already noticing worse mileage and performance vs when they first bought it - similar to our smartphones with batteries gradually degrading and losing capacity.
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It’s really not like smartphones at all, the batteries in those kinds of devices are ‘ragged on the redline’ 24/365 to give a motoring analogy. EV batteries are not, they have much more sophisticated BMS systems and use chemistries focused on longevity.

Have a look at this and the chart:

Yes batteries degrade but it’s not linear.

Per the above link, >90% at 250km / 150k miles. A car with 250 miles range will still have 225 miles after nearly 20 years worth of typical UK milage. They’ll be some calendar aging but you get the picture.

Capitano said:
you are probably right about the synthetic fuel, BUT if it does become a viable option to mass produce and supply then it'll become cheaper - even if it doesnt, the competition will likely force current petrol to become cheaper.
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There is no probably about it, I am right. As Jonny said, it’s all the inputs needed, mass production doesn’t reduce these costs as the inputs are already made at scale.

Capitano said:
This is also true that its probably a small %, but electrics are still relatively very new and there are probably a lot of long term issues that haven't even been identified yet. I dont even completely hate the idea of electrics in all fairness, it just cant be ALL that I drive. I would want a petrol car there for fun and weekend trips I take
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There really isn’t. Electric motors have been around since before the combustion engine. They are widely used in far more extreme industrial applications and are extremely reliable.

Batteries are a known quantity, they’ve been around for decades.

Everything else is just a car, you are more likely to have a problem with your door handle or something ‘luxurious’ like your motorised charge port flap than you are the drivetrain.

That’s why an EV drivetrain normally comes with an 8 year warranty but the rest of your ‘high quality’ German ultimate driving machine* only comes with a 3 year warranty. That’s why should tell you everything you need to know about which bits they expect to break.

*yes I know that’s BMW and not Audi.
 
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Capitano said:
v6, its a 2016 model. I cant even remember which ones had the v8 if any!
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Sorry but I got to say it.
True petrol heads have v8s:D

Only joking but I hear my colleagues say they're petrol heads and would never go ev.
1 drives a 3 cylinder 1 series and the other a nissan juke. 1 litre.

We all have our own opinions.
 
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m4rmite said:
and the other a nissan juke
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I actually experienced someone getting crap for driving a Juke the other day, as in nastiness not just banter, but it is a Nismo possibly RS so the joke is kind of on the other guy really, though it is a Juke at the end of the day.
 
Reminds me of the petrol head friend who was a mechanic. He had ended up getting his girlfriend in the family way. He “settled down” (with a shotgun to his head), bought a Zafira and modified it with better engine, brakes, exhaust etc. He was telling some of us how it would frequently “suck in and blow out” every other car at the green light drag race.

One of my friends just said, “it’s still a Zafira”. The rest of us could not contain the outburst of laughter, I thought the guy was going to cry.
 
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Capitano said:
Tesla's are the only real "old" electrics you can even compare with in all fairness, vast majority of newer electrics are all from the last couple of years. But I do have a couple friends with electrics bought around 2020-2022 that are already noticing worse mileage and performance vs when they first bought it - similar to our smartphones with batteries gradually degrading and losing capacity.

you are probably right about the synthetic fuel, BUT if it does become a viable option to mass produce and supply then it'll become cheaper - even if it doesnt, the competition will likely force current petrol to become cheaper.

This is also true that its probably a small %, but electrics are still relatively very new and there are probably a lot of long term issues that haven't even been identified yet. I dont even completely hate the idea of electrics in all fairness, it just cant be ALL that I drive. I would want a petrol car there for fun and weekend trips I take
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do all of your friends have gen one Nissan leafs because they are the only ones which really suffer. .. and the reasons for that are widely reported
sure they lose a bit of range as they get older .. but our 2018 i3 with 36kmiles on is still within a rounding error of its range ,when new as is my 2020 ipace with 56k miles on.

the Tesla model S came out in what... 2017? and those for sale now with really high milage are usually still on their initial battery and plenty of those are ex taxis with 200k+ miles on still doing 75% of their new range.

yes batteries do degrade over time, but the fact you compare it to mobile phones shows you really need to do research from places other than clickbait junk media with suspicious funding.

how many petrol cars with over 200k miles still have their same performance and efficiency without major work? drinking oil is something a lot of high milers do, which isn't an issue in an EV.
part of it is understanding the technology imo. if you bought an EV in say April, come October you would notice a fairly large drop in range compared to summer months.
that is just the nature of EVs their range drops in winter... but it comes back again in the spring... and obviously whilst the official range is ok as a rough yardstick to compare to other cars.... it's not really useful in a genuine sense which is why there is the EV database for genuine ranges in different scenarios.

my ipace has an official range of iirc 285 miles with 20 inch wheels
mine gets 260 miles best case summer scenario.... in reality in coldest winter on the motorway it may struggle to hit 200 miles.. that is the same today as it was 5 years ago out of the factory (give or take single digit miles)

edit... sorry this isn't the EV thread. I genuinely thought it was
 
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IIRC the Model S launched in 2012 and came to the U.K. in 2014.

Like I said the reason why you don’t see many around is because there were only about 10-11k sold in the U.K.

The vast majority are still on the roads but it’s the sort of car that gets written off once it gets into a minor collision due high repair costs and historic high scrap value. There used to be huge demand for the battery modules on the resale market which held the scrap value up.
 
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m4rmite said:
Sorry but I got to say it.
True petrol heads have v8s:D

Only joking but I hear my colleagues say they're petrol heads and would never go ev.
1 drives a 3 cylinder 1 series and the other a nissan juke. 1 litre.

We all have our own opinions.
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Plan on getting a v8 for my next car though :cry:
 
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